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I definitely think this is the risk. I actually kind of agree with where @musclemans head is at, although perhaps he is trying too hard to get the current data interpretations there. But for sure you

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3 hours ago, ERICOPOLY said:

Leading by ignorance.  Seriously, what a clownshow.

 

"At the end of the day though, it's about your health and whether you want that protection or not," DeSantis said. "It really doesn't impact me or anyone else."

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/07/1034794180/fauci-desantis-vaccine

Covid clogs emergency rooms, the unvacinated spread it to others and promotes the development of vaccine resistant variants. Then a twit like DeSantis condones this showing what an idiot he is.

Sounds like he should appeal to a lot of Republicans as a candidate for president. The incompetence boggles the mind - and people VOTE for these guys

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39 minutes ago, maplevalue said:

A Second Major Seasonal Virus Won’t Leave Us Any Choice - Scott Gottlieb

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/endemic-covid-manageable-risk-dual-threat-influenza/620044/

Uh oh, the next round of fear mongering has already started:

"Reducing these threats starts with more aggressive efforts to get people vaccinated for flu and COVID alike. Work-related vaccination mandates for both diseases will become more common."

And that's why vaccine mandates are a slippery slope. Next up: Influenza. And after that?

Edited by backtothebeach
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1 hour ago, backtothebeach said:

Uh oh, the next round of fear mongering has already started:

"Reducing these threats starts with more aggressive efforts to get people vaccinated for flu and COVID alike. Work-related vaccination mandates for both diseases will become more common."

And that's why vaccine mandates are a slippery slope. Next up: Influenza. And after that?

 

Delta Airlines said it costs them $50,000 per employee that is hospitalized with COVID-19.  

The rational thing to do is to vaccinate.  The fear-mongering is the "makes you magnetic" or "makes you infertile" bullcrap that is spread by the conservative loonies.

 

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56 minutes ago, ERICOPOLY said:

 

Delta Airlines said it costs them $50,000 per employee that is hospitalized with COVID-19.  

The rational thing to do is to vaccinate.  The fear-mongering is the "makes you magnetic" or "makes you infertile" bullcrap that is spread by the conservative loonies.

 

Well, if now it's about money the rational thing would be to give Delta Airlines (employers in general) total control over their employees' health to minimize sick days and severe diseases. Mandate nutrition, diets, exercise, fire obese people, smokers ...

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"The science clearly shows us that masking is an effective strategy to prevent within-school transmission when COVID-19 is circulating and when vaccination is not yet available for all children," Dr. Kanecia Zimmerman, co-chair of the ABC Science Collaborative, said in a statement reviewing those findings.

https://www.npr.org/sections/back-to-school-live-updates/2021/09/10/1035954587/yes-gov-desantis-studies-do-show-masks-curb-covid-19-in-schools

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Support has grown in the past month for employer vaccine mandates, just as more businesses have begun requiring vaccination. The poll finds 50% of U.S. adults support employers requiring vaccination to return to in-person work, while 44% do not. But if you dig into party identification, 82% of Democrats support the mandates, while only 19% of Republicans do (independents are at 45%).

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/03/1033750072/the-share-of-u-s-adults-willing-to-get-vaccinated-ticks-up-a-new-poll-finds

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11 hours ago, ERICOPOLY said:

The deadly and highly contagious virus is now on a level of concern with diet, exercise, smoking, obesity.  Wonderful.

The IFR for Covid for age < 30 years is below 0.01%. Sub 40yr is below 0.1%. (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2918-0/figures/2). However that includes everyone with cancer, obesity, or other comorbidities. The IFR for healthy sub 40yr people without known health issues must be approaching zero (tragic examples that make headlines notwithstanding.) I don't agree with forcing healthy young people into a vaccine.


And then there is this study from Israel https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

Previous Maccabi Healthcare studies about vaccine efficacy were widely reported, this one was ignored.

@Results SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.

--

Anyway, it is what it is. The 25-30% of the population that went through Covid and now have broader immunity may yet save all our asses if there are more variants in the future.

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2 hours ago, backtothebeach said:

The IFR for Covid for age < 30 years is below 0.01%. Sub 40yr is below 0.1%. (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2918-0/figures/2). However that includes everyone with cancer, obesity, or other comorbidities. The IFR for healthy sub 40yr people without known health issues must be approaching zero (tragic examples that make headlines notwithstanding.) I don't agree with forcing healthy young people into a vaccine.


And then there is this study from Israel https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

Previous Maccabi Healthcare studies about vaccine efficacy were widely reported, this one was ignored.

@Results SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.

--

Anyway, it is what it is. The 25-30% of the population that went through Covid and now have broader immunity may yet save all our asses if there are more variants in the future.

 

1). The study says that you are better protected if you receive a shot of the vaccine:  "Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant."

2). The study is referencing individuals vaccinated in January/February.  The articles I have posted suggest that vaccine effectiveness falls to 15% for individuals vaccinated in January and that a 3rd booster shot dramatically improves protection. 

3).  Survivorship bias.  Ask yourself why the people who died from covid-19 in January were not included in the study collecting data on rate of hospitalizations since then.  We'll see what the peer review says when it occurs.

 

 

 

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3).  Self-selection bias.  People with preexisting conditions or immunocompromised are more likely to choose to be vaccinated than people who believe themselves to be healthy.  

4).  Age.  What age groups did most of the vaccinations go to in January?  I know I didn't qualify until April and I'm 48.

5).  We don't have the medical resources to carry on with these silly games.

 

Edited by ERICOPOLY
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"Due to COVID 19, CRMC emergency staff contacted 43 hospitals in 3 states in search of a Cardiac ICU bed and finally located one in Meridian, MS.," the last paragraph of DeMonia's obituary reads, referring to the Cullman Regional Medical Center.

"In honor of Ray, please get vaccinated if you have not, in an effort to free up resources for non COVID related emergencies ... ," the obituary reads. "He would not want any other family to go through what his did."

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia

 

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That's tragic.

It looks like Alabama and many other states are past their peak, luckily.

Clogged health systems, and tragedies like the above have happened before (and people hardly gave a damn). Does this time justify massive interventions like vaccine passports, mandates etc.? I still don't think so, and worrying about the implications of these interventions is not a silly game. That's all.

 

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The one fear you have is a flu shot?

 

http://www.adph.org/immunization/assets/alimmrequirements.pdf

Alabama:

Children attending 5 year-old-kindergarten through 12th grade must have had 5 doses of diphtheria/tetanus/pertussis vaccine (4 if the 4th dose was received after the 4th birthday) and 4 doses of polio vaccine (3 if the 3rd dose was received after the 4th birthday). Booster doses of tetanus-diphtheria toxoid vaccine must be given every 5-10 years after the preschool booster. Children in these grades should also have received 2 doses of measles-containing vaccine and 1 dose each of mumps and rubella vaccine, usually administered as 2 doses of MMR vaccine. Varicella (chickenpox) vaccine for kindergarten entry became a requirement in 2001. This requirement will increase by one grade cohort until Fall 2013, when varicella documentation will be required for all children, kindergarten through 12th grade (see chart below). A positive test for varicella immunity or documentation of chickenpox disease is acceptable in lieu of varicella vaccine.

 

 

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The conservatives are being victimized by confidence men with medical licenses.

 

This Doctor Spread False Information About COVID. She Still Kept Her Medical License

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/14/1035915598/doctors-covid-misinformation-medical-license

As an alternative, she pushed drugs that have not been proven effective at treating COVID-19 — drugs that she also offered to prescribe to the audience in exchange for $90 telehealth appointments.

...

she still is, as she claims, a licensed physician in the state of California (her license lists her professional address as a UPS shipping store in Beverly Hills).

...

Ahmed says that having a medical degree may also be helping these doctors skirt social media bans on coronavirus misinformation. "We will find that social media companies will hide behind any excuse that they can to leave up [the profiles of] those people spreading misinformation, and one of the excuses they use is citing their medical credentials," Ahmed says.

...

Doctors who discourage vaccination have found regular spots on conservative radio and TV talk shows and on cable networks. Among the most prominent promoters of this brand of false information is former Trump strategist Steve Bannon, who regularly interviews a small, rotating cast of these physicians on his talk show.

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"The applicant needs to demonstrate opposition to vaccinations in all forms, not just certain vaccinations," according to the agency.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/15/1037410464/us-immigrant-visa-applicant-coronavirus-covid-vaccine

 

Smart. 

That's the issue I have with most of the people asking for a religious exemption for the covid vaccine :  the covid vaccine is typically the first vaccine they've ever objected to on religious grounds.  In other words:  they're full of it.

Edited by ERICOPOLY
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So now Covid-19 has now become a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Guess you get what you ask for.

One might hope that these people might just be smart enough to finally get the message as they watch some of their members get sick and others die.

For all their talk, has anyone yet heard even one realistic reason for not getting vaccinated? Not yet? 

It is kind of hard to take people seriously who refuse to take a legitimate vaccine and then willfully take medicine prescribed for horses. That would be funny if it wasn't such a sad commentary on that segment of the population.

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