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Question for Trump Supporters Who Support the Overthrow of the US Government


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In Georgia the senate judiciary committee was (is?) mostly republican.  There is a political bias there.  Same with legislatures in Arizona and Pennsylvania.

 

The statistical arguments don't prove anything, but they are trying to provide a compelling reason to inspect the ballots and machines more closely.  Unless any ballots can be proven to be fake, then I don't see how they can be thrown out.  I also don't know how you know which "fake or illegal" ballots were for which contestant unless they are inspected.

 

Here's where I'm at, one side is lying and it would be easy to figure out who is lying by allowing a non-partisan inspection of the voting machines and mail-in ballots.  That's what Arizona, Georgia, and Pennsylvania are working towards (I believe).

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ReadTheFootnotes,

 

I'm not getting too hung up on the court cases.  I view it as not their job to fix this.  I haven't reviewed every single case, and I'm not a lawyer anyways.  My opinion doesn't mean much regarding the court cases.

 

I think the US is still the best game in town.  I can't complain.  I've been extremely lucky to be born in this country and have been afforded opportunities that 99% of the people on earth could only dream of.

 

Regarding where to start looking at evidence, I would recommend starting here:

 

Willian Ligon, Georgia Senate Judiciary Committee report: http://www.senatorligon.com/THE_SENATE%20JUDICIARY%20SUBCOMMITTEE_FINAL%20REPORT.PDF

 

Pennsylvania Senate letter to congress (the letter is embedded in this article):

 

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/spl/electoral-college-certification-pennsylvania-senate-letter-20210106.html

That was really interesting. It was very interesting to compare summary of the hearing with watching the actual hearing. It is absolutely an astounding difference in my opinion. Also interesting that it seems Giuliani was present for this hearing.

 

The primary witness is Ryan Germany with the vast majority of the time comprised of Germany and Gabriel Sterling appearing afterwards. Germany, and Sterling of course were engaged in multiple calls that may result in criminal or civil issues for Trump and others. We will probably find out more about that in about nine days.

 

That definitely expanded my understanding the criminal cases that might be filed and more importantly some of the other actors involved. It helps me better understand why Trump would force the Trump-appointed AG Pak to resign.

 

It also makes sense why the Republican Secretary of State and his employees had to do so much to fight conspiracy theories. You can watch one of his attempts here. Interesting to note that six weeks ago, he said that someone was going to get shot because of all the lies.

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/04/953321408/georgia-election-official-dont-let-misinformation-suppress-your-own-vote

 

This AP article includes and annotated fact check of the phone call with the president related to these calls and claims

 

https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-check-donald-trump-georgia-elections-electoral-college-407d934b6649a4e4059ec28c4cb70512

 

I've attached an image of the "Claim vs Fact" chart that Sterling used in one of his press conferences to refute the Giuliani talking points.

136350042_1822833201217337_1385675336545853800_o.thumb.jpg.a2d26bc66868d5e8a2a2396c96fe4852.jpg

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ReadTheFootnotes,

 

One side is lying.  It shouldn't take too much effort to prove which side it is.  Georgia SOS claims 2 dead people voted, Giullini claims at least 800 people died in 2020 prior to the election and voted.  I want to know who is lying.  I should add, I'm open to the possibility that the Trump team is either lying or has bad info.  I want to see it all laid out in a public forum.

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@JRM or others who think believe there is 'evidence of [above average] election irregularities at a large enough scale...'

 

Full disclosure:

1) I haven't come across evidence of this, mainly cause I consume (probably) left-leaning mainstream/tech media... and I don't even know where to begin searching for 'credible' evidence of this to form a more-balanced opinion

2) I'm genuinely interested, NOT in engaging in a debate on this (because I don't know the data intimately), but to evaluate-the-evidence (that those who believe the 'election fraud narrative' find compelling), to form my own opinion on the theory

 

Question:

Are there links (recognizing that they probably won't be 'mainstream') where someone can point me to both the analysis and raw data that suggests 'above average amount of election fraud'?  And to be clear, I think there's probably ALWAYS some base-level of fraud (which varies depending on geographical/historical norms) - but I'd be very appreciative to see the evidence that 'above average fraud happened at national level in 2020'

 

Instead of relying on the losing candidate or independent researchers to "prove" anything, I think a highly auditable and verifiable system should be in place. If my business posts financial statements rather out of line with historical figures, that's a flag and may trigger a tax or regulatory audit. And probably should. If signature verification figures or adjudication numbers spike. It seems like that is worthy of a full forensic audit. If the businesses of citizens are auditable by the state at great penalty, elections probably should have the same standard.

 

What a concept. +1

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From the anarchist point of view they are far more similar than different.

 

Too reductionist for my palate. Nihilism is just so boring.  ;D

 

His original argument is like retorting to someone critical of Stalin.  "You don't like Stalin?  You know who else didn't like Stalin?  Hitler that's who!"

 

It is just not a very good argument.  Stating that they are more similar to me than different is just a fact.  You don't have to enjoy it.

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^ there is a lot of very simple and academic theory supporting much of the dissenter snide. You can not fault them for obliviousness to real world life. They dictate from their bubbles. 2020 was an anomaly of a year. The vote by mail process was like nothing ever before implemented. It is not out of the ordinary for results to be highly unusual. But procedure and precaution, as well as thoroughness of verification should also coincide with this. And it wasnt and hasn't been. Some of that is on Trump and his administration who should have taken election security more seriously ahead of time, and other parts of this are on his deranged detractors who won and dont care about anything else at this point.

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Lol. Good luck "investigating the election". Maybe another thread on par with Fannie/Freddie can be started by our resident Legal, Political, and Election experts.

 

The analysis of recent events is mind numbingly simple. You can find it in "The Psychology of Human Misjudgment".

 

It's the same tricks used to convince folks that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. And then when shown the Birth Certificate, that it's a fake.

 

There are those who can utilize the Psychology of Human Misjudgment for business success. Trump has done this. So has Coca Cola or Apple.

 

Then there are those who can weaponize Human Misjudgment to seize and hold onto power. Trump has done this as have others who have seized power throughout history. And this is the one where it becomes a huge problem.

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Lol. Good luck "investigating the election". Maybe another thread on par with Fannie/Freddie can be started by our resident Legal, Political, and Election experts.

 

The analysis of recent events is mind numbingly simple. You can find it in "The Psychology of Human Misjudgment".

 

It's the same tricks used to convince folks that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. And then when shown the Birth Certificate, that it's a fake.

 

There are those who can utilize the Psychology of Human Misjudgment for business success. Trump has done this. So has Coca Cola or Apple.

 

Then there are those who can weaponize Human Misjudgment to seize and hold onto power. Trump has done this as have others who have seized power throughout history. And this is the one where it becomes a huge problem.

 

It's easier to fool somebody than convince them they've been fooled.  Got it.

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^ there is a lot of very simple and academic theory supporting much of the dissenter snide. You can not fault them for obliviousness to real world life. They dictate from their bubbles. 2020 was an anomaly of a year. The vote by mail process was like nothing ever before implemented. It is not out of the ordinary for results to be highly unusual. But procedure and precaution, as well as thoroughness of verification should also coincide with this. And it wasnt and hasn't been. Some of that is on Trump and his administration who should have taken election security more seriously ahead of time, and other parts of this are on his deranged detractors who won and dont care about anything else at this point.

 

One conspiracy theory that I'm not on board with is that Trump knew the election was going to be fraught with fraud.  Then why didn't he do anything beforehand?  Completely ridiculous for those hanging on to hope that something is going to happen between now and Jan 20.

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Its easier to keep people pitted against each other, or misdirected, than to allow them to come together and focus on the real problems.

Workers of the world, unite!

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It's easier to fool somebody than convince them they've been fooled.  Got it.

 

Especially when that person is prone to thesis creep/moving of the goalposts ad infinitum.

 

 

First it's "why won't he show us the birth certificate if there's nothing to hide. just show us the cert"

 

Then it's "well the certificate is obviously fake. now we need to see the long form birth certificate!" and on and on. (Trump is smiling).

 

 

Now:

 

First it's "why don't they do a hand recount" or "why don't we let the courts decide" or "why don't we give this a fair hearing" or "what about this dead voter over here (turns out to be alive)" or "let Pence/Congress decide"

 

Then it's "The Court did it on procedure, not merit (not true)" or "Pence is a traitor" or "It's the deepstate" and on and on. (Trump is smiling).

 

 

In the end, what likely occurred: the act of registering to vote and voting itself was made a little easier in some places due to the pandemic, in some cases with the support of liberal groups.

 

If you have a problem with too many people being able to register to vote or people voting more easily than otherwise, that's a separate conversation from 'fraud' involving machines being rigged, dead voters, or ballot dumps. My view is that voting should be made easier in general and I think red areas have a long history of voter suppression (particularly in the South), but it's a totally different conversation.

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^ there is a lot of very simple and academic theory supporting much of the dissenter snide. You can not fault them for obliviousness to real world life. They dictate from their bubbles. 2020 was an anomaly of a year. The vote by mail process was like nothing ever before implemented. It is not out of the ordinary for results to be highly unusual. But procedure and precaution, as well as thoroughness of verification should also coincide with this. And it wasnt and hasn't been. Some of that is on Trump and his administration who should have taken election security more seriously ahead of time, and other parts of this are on his deranged detractors who won and dont care about anything else at this point.

 

One conspiracy theory that I'm not on board with is that Trump knew the election was going to be fraught with fraud.  Then why didn't he do anything beforehand?  Completely ridiculous for those hanging on to hope that something is going to happen between now and Jan 20.

 

JRM, usually the simplest answer is the right answer. Trump NEVER thought the election was going to be fraught with fraud. That is why he did nothing beforehand. He is surrounded by lots of smart people. He was HIGHLY motivated to win a second term. I like to focus on what people DO and less on what they SAY.

 

‘Fraught with fraud’ was the big lie. Why would he need a big lie? As cover IF he lost the election. And this is EXACTLY  what we are seeing.

 

Despite losing, Trump remains President in the eyes of his base. BRILLIANT PIVOT. In defeat his influence over his supporters is maintained, even enhanced. His power over the Republican party is maintained. Fundraising? Hundreds of millions is rolling in. TRUMP IS THE VICTIM.

 

The fly in the ointment might be the storming of the capital... it went a little too well. People died and there will be consequences. The ‘election fraud’ thing might quickly become old news...

 

—————————-

But don’t take my words for it. Or Trump’s for that matter. Mitch McConnel’s words should provide Republican’s with closure on the ‘election fraud’ issue.

 

“Nothing before us proves illegality anywhere near the massive scale that would have tipped the entire election," McConnell said. "... The Constitution gives us here in Congress a limited role. We cannot simply declare ourselves a national board of elections on steroids."

 

He continued: "The voters, the courts, the states — they've all spoken. They've all spoken. If we overrule them, it would damage our republic forever. This election actually was not unusually close. Just in recent history, 1976, 2000 and 2004 were all closer than this one."

 

- https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/01/06/mitch-mcconnell-rails-against-objection-election-results/6564503002/

 

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Watch the nice mugging of a lovely young lady, Tara Szczepanski, yesterday in NYC Madison Square Park.

 

Tara's crime is that she is a Trump supporter, of course.  Black-Lives-Matter gives her what she is due:

 

- first they egg her

- then they totally surround her and  hit her with an umbrella

- then they club her with a skateboard

- all the while, screaming "she's a Trump supporter" , "she's a NAZI"

 

See video #3 and #4

 

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/01/10/watch-antifa-in-riot-gear-blm-march-in-nyc-female-journalist-attacked/

 

I hope you are all proud of your BLM social justice warriors.

Oh, BTW - if you search for this on Google or YouTube - it has been censored and suppressed by your Propaganda Minister

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Aren't you so happy Trump has made America so peaceful?

 

I remember when it was like this under Obama...not. No one cared about political crap as much back then other than when someone was killed by cops, and those protests were isolated largely to the places where the shooting took place. With Trump, it's different.

 

When Trump is gone, it will go back to being boring (good) again.

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First of all, if you think that’s a mugging then you’ve never been jumped before.

 

But yeah it’s very uncool to silly-string and egg someone. So sure, track them down and arrest them. But let’s not pretend that’s as bad as shooting out journalists’ eyes or raiding federal buildings and attempting to kidnap congresspeople.

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^^ Sure, sure, sure LC - a bunch of blacks surround a helpless young girl, club her with a skateboard and umbrella. Imagine it's your wife.

 

I always expect you to make excuses for the LEFT.

 

So you just go right on pretending .. "My Rioters are not as Bad as Yours".

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Watch the nice mugging of a lovely young lady,

I hope you are all proud of your BLM social justice warriors.

Oh, BTW - if you search for this on Google or YouTube - it has been censored and suppressed by your Propaganda Minister

I respectfully request you delete this post, Cubs. It's an embarrassment.

 

I googled this person's name and I found some of the most disturbing content I have seen in a long time that she has produced. I am worried I won't sleep well as a result. I would like to retain some respect for you and believe that you simply made a mistake by trusting Breitbart without doing your own research, and I retain a very limited hope that you would find it offensive too.

 

Note: I do not support violence or Antifa, but I do hope there is something that an official authority can do to address the content that she creates.

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^Are you serious RTF?  Really?

 

Are you a holocaust denier as well?  -- all those pictures/videos of dead Jews- a hoax??

 

Only an IDIOT would come to YOUR conclusion after watching these videos.

And YOU KNOW exactly why this incident has NOT been reported - because it DOES NOT fit the agenda of the LEFT and MSM propaganda.

You hate Breitbart because they owe you and the LEFT nothing - too bad.

 

One of these days RTF , YOU will just suck it up and deal with the truth for once.

 

 

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Note: I do not support ANTIFA, I just defend them and their ilk an awful lot. I do come in peace though, dont mind me riding in on my high horse. Sometimes prisms create distortions as I observe from my sheltered bubble.

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