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Trudeau to bring in 1.2MM immigrants over next 3 years


spartan
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5782642

 

As the son of an immigrant, I’m grateful for the opportunity Canada gave my father. He was born in a small Greek village, came here after finishing top of his class, earned a degree in medicine, and served the Greek community’s health needs for 40 years. He worked his ass off 12 hours a day / 6 days a week, never took a single sick day.. lived the “American/Canadian dream”. Left Greece for the opportunity of a better life and eventually earned it. Letting him in was a win-win for both him and Canada. He paid every cent of his taxes and attempted to assimilate to the local culture.

 

On the other hand, I can’t help but wonder what all of these people are going to do here. You can be pro-immigrant AND skeptical of these massive intakes. This doesn’t seem like a smart strategy. Trudeau is just firing from the hip, hoping to gain votes and prop up housing even more. I can’t help but feel that this country has sold out. The only guy that’s standing up to these sellouts is Pierre Poilievre.

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So basically your father took the opportunity that Canada offered him and it worked out great for him and his family and great for Canada. Now you want to deny others that opportunity because you can't help but wonder what those people are going to do here. Right? Do you ever think that when your dad was coming over here there were people like you who were wondering just what the hell some poor Greeks from some small village are going to do here?

 

As for the massive intake and Trudeau shooting for the hip that's all nonsense. For a very long time the target of Canada's immigration program has been to have an yearly intake of roughly 1% of the population of Canada. 1.2 million over 3 years is roughly on that target. So basically Trudeau is continuing to do what we've always done and worked out well.

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I am fine with that part of his platform. As long as these people are reasonably young and willing to work. Its really a win for Canada if done right. However the liberals are dismantling the former good immigration system, the one that they built!  In favor of something more.. random and "fair*.

 

My only concern is whatis wrong with the society these people are leaving. Hopefully these people don't come here and try to replicate the place they are leaving.  For instance I know people from former Soviet countries who come here and lean far far left.  Not all but some.  They can't even admit it was communism that screwed their country.

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That is certainly a fair statement. If you are leaving your country by choice, you should show respect upon relocating somewhere else. Otherwise, why are you leaving and what exactly are you doing here? I dont walk into my neighbors house, kick my feet up, and bark orders at his wife while helping myself to his food pantry....How arrogant must one be to just walk into another country and expect everyone around them, who was there first, to change for them? It used to be common that folks, even when traveling for vacation to another country, would be expected to familiarize themselves on a reasonable basis, with the prevailing language of that place? Now? Ha... Move, assimilate, produce has morphed into move, force everyone else to change, mooch.

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That is certainly a fair statement. If you are leaving your country by choice, you should show respect upon relocating somewhere else. Otherwise, why are you leaving and what exactly are you doing here? I dont walk into my neighbors house, kick my feet up, and bark orders at his wife while helping myself to his food pantry....How arrogant must one be to just walk into another country and expect everyone around them, who was there first, to change for them? It used to be common that folks, even when traveling for vacation to another country, would be expected to familiarize themselves on a reasonable basis, with the prevailing language of that place? Now? Ha... Move, assimilate, produce has morphed into move, force everyone else to change, mooch.

What the hell are you talking about man?

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That is certainly a fair statement. If you are leaving your country by choice, you should show respect upon relocating somewhere else. Otherwise, why are you leaving and what exactly are you doing here? I dont walk into my neighbors house, kick my feet up, and bark orders at his wife while helping myself to his food pantry....How arrogant must one be to just walk into another country and expect everyone around them, who was there first, to change for them? It used to be common that folks, even when traveling for vacation to another country, would be expected to familiarize themselves on a reasonable basis, with the prevailing language of that place? Now? Ha... Move, assimilate, produce has morphed into move, force everyone else to change, mooch.

What the hell are you talking about man?

 

LOL the post above mine that talks about people coming here and bringing with them their prior countries issues and entitlement....did you click on the wrong thread?

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So basically your father took the opportunity that Canada offered him and it worked out great for him and his family and great for Canada. Now you want to deny others that opportunity because you can't help but wonder what those people are going to do here. Right? Do you ever think that when your dad was coming over here there were people like you who were wondering just what the hell some poor Greeks from some small village are going to do here?

 

As for the massive intake and Trudeau shooting for the hip that's all nonsense. For a very long time the target of Canada's immigration program has been to have an yearly intake of roughly 1% of the population of Canada. 1.2 million over 3 years is roughly on that target. So basically Trudeau is continuing to do what we've always done and worked out well.

 

That is not what I'm saying at all. Like most reasonable Canadians, I am 100% in favour of immigration. We are a country of immigrants for crying out loud. Did you even read what I said? The guy interviewing my dad for his cardiology fellowship told him to "go back to his country". He experienced racism on an almost daily basis. To say that there were "people like me" back then grossly misrepresents what I said.

 

rb how dare you tacitly call me a racist?

 

I was questioning the *number* of immigrants coming in at such a critical time, when there are plenty of people already out of work in our own country. I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing to say. And I think it's perfectly reasonable to question the decisions of our government. The fact that I even have to explain that to you tells me that your intent is not to have a rational conversation. It is to misrepresent and sensationalize what I said.

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So basically your father took the opportunity that Canada offered him and it worked out great for him and his family and great for Canada. Now you want to deny others that opportunity because you can't help but wonder what those people are going to do here. Right? Do you ever think that when your dad was coming over here there were people like you who were wondering just what the hell some poor Greeks from some small village are going to do here?

 

As for the massive intake and Trudeau shooting for the hip that's all nonsense. For a very long time the target of Canada's immigration program has been to have an yearly intake of roughly 1% of the population of Canada. 1.2 million over 3 years is roughly on that target. So basically Trudeau is continuing to do what we've always done and worked out well.

 

That is not what I'm saying at all. Like most reasonable Canadians, I am 100% in favour of immigration. We are a country of immigrants for crying out loud. Did you even read what I said? The guy interviewing my dad for his cardiology fellowship told him to "go back to his country". He experienced racism on an almost daily basis. To say that there were "people like me" back then grossly misrepresents what I said.

 

rb how dare you tacitly call me a racist?

 

I was questioning the *number* of immigrants coming in at such a critical time, when there are plenty of people already out of work in our own country. I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing to say. And I think it's perfectly reasonable to question the decisions of our government. The fact that I even have to explain that to you tells me that your intent is not to have a rational conversation. It is to misrepresent and sensationalize what I said.

I didn't call you a racist. I think maybe you've been hoodwinked by your political views.

 

In regards to the numbers involved. As I've mentioned in my original reply they are in line with the numbers that have been used by the immigration program for consistently decades. Now, you seem to agree that the immigration program has been a success. Both for the immigrants and for Canada. So if it worked well for so many years through economic expansions and contractions, through periods of high and low unemployment, why would it stop working now all of a sudden?

 

I think it's perfectly reasonable to question the government. But when the government is continuing a program in pretty much the same form it has been for a long time and you characterize that as Truedau shooting from the hip and selling the country out I don't think it's me that is doing the mischaracterization and the sensationalizing.

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^ It's the super LEFT knucklehead in him that can't be stopped. Don't worry about it - we deal with it all the time.

 

But what you said, Spartan, about desire and hard work, to "assimilate" is the KEY to successful immigration.

Americans (and I assume Canadians?) , early on, demanded assimilation into our culture by learning the language, to the

best of ability (certainly for the 2nd generation immigrant) - as the IMMIGRANT's responsibility.

 

Your father (as my mother did) - did it the right way. You keep your cultural identity, but it's secondary to being an "American" or a "Canadian".

You learn the language, obey the laws, and adopt the ideals of being an American or Canadian.

 

Your point about massive unchecked immigration IS SPOT ON. Look no further than the disaster in California:

 

- 1/3 of all US Welfare recipients live in California

- schools are ranked in the bottom 47 or 48th out of 50 - witness the 30% high school drop out rate

- 50% of the residents pay no taxes

- hospital emergency rooms are overloaded due to no coverage illegal immigrants

- 30% of California's prisons are illegal alien criminals, yet are 9% of the population

 

I could go on. And for all this, you have the privilege of paying the highest taxes in the country for the

worst schools and infrastructure. Much of California is starting to look like a 3rd world country.

 

Legal, meritocratic, and measured immigration  leads to rapid assimilation that benefits a country like Canada or the United States.

This is how the melting pot worked in the United States for years.

 

Unchecked immigration is a total disaster.

 

Thank god we are building a wall.

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^ It's the super LEFT knucklehead in him that can't be stopped. Don't worry about it - we deal with it all the time.

 

But what you said, Spartan, about desire and hard work, to "assimilate" is the KEY to successful immigration.

Americans (and I assume Canadians?) , early on, demanded assimilation into our culture by learning the language, to the

best of ability (certainly for the 2nd generation immigrant) - as the IMMIGRANT's responsibility.

 

Your father (as my mother did) - did it the right way. You keep your cultural identity, but it's secondary to being an "American" or a "Canadian".

You learn the language, obey the laws, and adopt the ideals of being an American or Canadian.

 

Your point about massive unchecked immigration IS SPOT ON. Look no further than the disaster in California:

 

- 1/3 of all US Welfare recipients live in California

- schools are ranked in the bottom 47 or 48th out of 50 - witness the 30% high school drop out rate

- 50% of the residents pay no taxes

- hospital emergency rooms are overloaded due to no coverage illegal immigrants

- 30% of California's prisons are illegal alien criminals, yet are 9% of the population

 

I could go on. And for all this, you have the privilege of paying the highest taxes in the country for the

worst schools and infrastructure. Much of California is starting to look like a 3rd world country.

 

Legal, meritocratic, and measured immigration  leads to rapid assimilation that benefits a country like Canada or the United States.

This is how the melting pot worked in the United States for years.

 

Unchecked immigration is a total disaster.

 

Thank god we are building a wall.

Dude, have you been reading the thread? Nobody here is talking about massive and unchecked immigration. Well, you are, but nobody else.

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^ Don't be a moron RB

 

The man, Spartan, said:

 

"On the other hand, I can’t help but wonder what all of these people are going to do here. You can be pro-immigrant AND skeptical of these massive intakes. This doesn’t seem like a smart strategy."

 

 

Learn to read.

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^ Don't be a moron RB

 

The man, Spartan, said:

 

"On the other hand, I can’t help but wonder what all of these people are going to do here. You can be pro-immigrant AND skeptical of these massive intakes. This doesn’t seem like a smart strategy."

 

 

Learn to read.

Have you been reading?

 

"All those people" aren't massive intakes. They're in line with what Canada has been doing for decades. We seem to be doing fine.

 

It's also not unchecked. The fact that there is a target is in itself a check. The fact that there is a program is the really big check. You can't just immigrate to Canada, you have to qualify under the program.

 

Anything else I missed due to my lack of reading ability?

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^ Pretty damn clear what Spartan said:

 

"I was questioning the *number* of immigrants coming in at such a critical time, when there are plenty of people already out of work in our own country. I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing to say. And I think it's perfectly reasonable to question the decisions of our government. The fact that I even have to explain that to you tells me that your intent is not to have a rational conversation. It is to misrepresent and sensationalize what I said"

 

 

And the fact that you want to beat him about about raising a very legitimate concern - tells me you still can't read or as he says - you want to

misrepresent what he said.

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Did you also read my replies?

 

Yes, and I gave the man the other side of the coin, which is be concerned about immigration without preconditions or assimilation.

 

It's been a total disaster in California, as the primary example.

 

...and if we get an idiot like Joe Biden running the country - it will be worse - so maybe Spartan has legitimate concerns about Trudeau?!

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Did you also read my replies?

 

Yes, and I gave the man the other side of the coin, which is be concerned about immigration without preconditions or assimilation.

 

It's been a total disaster in California, as the primary example.

What are you talking about no preconditions? Canada's immigration program has a shit ton of preconditions.

 

As for assimilation, we don't assimilate people in free societies, the Borg do that. That would go against a shitload of really good laws.

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cubsfan, Gregmal, no_free_lunch: thanks for the replies/heads up, I appreciate it.

 

rb: I understand it's what Canada has been doing for decades. I'm just saying that I disagree with the timing. Again, Trudeau is just looking for votes (he runs a minority gov't) and needs more immigrants to fill all the vacant condos to prevent a housing collapse (you know, the ones that were bought by AirBnB "investors", laundered foreign money, normal people chasing a bubble, etc.).

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RB- Thanks for the lesson on democracy and freedom. Much appreciated.  I have no idea who the Borg is..

 

But desire to assimilate is key. It's hard work and is required for a successful immigration.

You may not believe it - so be it. We call it the melting pot.

 

And you can only successfully assimilate so many poor, uneducated people into your society at a time without impacting your own people.

And if you DON'T, they become a tremendous burden on a population - with the results I elaborated on.

 

You can't force assimilation, but you can restrict who comes in, what are their backgrounds, how many you take, etc.

 

The United States went off the rails for YEARS before Trump actually did something about the problem. Hopefully, your politicians are more careful.

 

 

 

 

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cubsfan, Gregmal, no_free_lunch: thanks for the replies/heads up, I appreciate it.

 

rb: I understand it's what Canada has been doing for decades. I'm just saying that I disagree with the timing. Again, Trudeau is just looking for votes (he runs a minority gov't) and needs more immigrants to fill all the vacant condos to prevent a housing collapse (you know, the ones that were bought by AirBnB "investors", laundered foreign money, normal people chasing a bubble, etc.).

Well respectfully, regarding the timing we can talk about impact on labour supply and whether that actually translates into any real economic effect.

 

But the fact that you think Trudeau is looking for votes from the new immigrants and to sell condos is telling me that you're going at this from a political perspective not a rational one. First of all, the new immigrants have no idea what a Trudeau is. Second, they're not allowed to vote. It will be years before they can. Third, given that Canadian immigrants tend to be conservative, right wing types when they get to vote they probably won't be voting for Trudeau. In fact immigrants are an important voting block for the Conservative party. Fourth, new immigrants won't be lining up to buy condos in downtown Toronto or Vancouver.

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RB- Thanks for the lesson on democracy and freedom. Much appreciated.  I have no idea who the Borg is..

 

But desire to assimilate is key. It's hard work and is required for a successful immigration.

You may not believe it - so be it. We call it the melting pot.

 

And you can only successfully assimilate so many poor, uneducated people into your society at a time without impacting your own people.

And if you DON'T, they become a tremendous burden on a population - with the results I elaborated on.

 

You can't force assimilation, but you can restrict who comes in, what are their backgrounds, how many you take, etc.

 

The United States went off the rails for YEARS before Trump actually did something about the problem. Hopefully, your politicians are more careful.

Cubs, with all due respect, from your posts you haven't the foggiest idea about Canadian immigration and you're not listening to someone who does.

 

In regards to assimilation you can't force it because of well... yeah... freedom. In Canada assimilation is actually achieved through economic means. If you don't assimilate you won't be doing that well. Canadian immigrants through their nature want to do well so they assimilate quite well. There are always the exceptions of course. But mostly the ones that don't/won't assimilate leave.

 

Canadian immigrants are not poor and uneducated. They're mostly highly educated and comparatively well off people. Few are what you would call poor.

 

Canada does restrict who it takes in, what their backgrounds are, how many it takes.

 

This is the Borg:

 

Borg_aboard_enterprise_2153.jpg

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I have no idea who the Borg is..

 

But desire to assimilate is key.

 

Spoken like a true borg!!!

 

But the fact that you think Trudeau is looking for votes from the new immigrants and to sell condos is telling me that you're going at this from a political perspective not a rational one

well...duh. Both spartan and cubs have changed their argument multiple times now, after you have proven them incorrect (repeatedly). Why you repeatedly come back to the well is the only confusing part! :D

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I have no idea who the Borg is..

 

But desire to assimilate is key.

 

Spoken like a true borg!!!

 

But the fact that you think Trudeau is looking for votes from the new immigrants and to sell condos is telling me that you're going at this from a political perspective not a rational one

well...duh. Both spartan and cubs have changed their argument multiple times now, after you have proven them incorrect (repeatedly). Why you repeatedly come back to the well is the only confusing part! :D

Because deep down I'm an optimist  :D

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As a Canadian, i've highly benefited from immigration, think it's a great asset in a declining 'natural' population growth environment, suggest that 'we' should aim for a maximum but questions about what is the maximum appear appropriate in terms of integration and social acceptability.

 

Historically, numbers have varied but had settled to about 250-270k per year since the 1990s and up to recently.

c-g01-eng.png

 

Canada's population has been growing at about 1% per year, most of which from net immigration and the expected portion of this proportion from immigration (of the 1% growth) is likely to reach 100% within about 10 years or so (declining fertility rates).

 

Canada's emphasis on the economic program seems to be the right one and, contrary to popular melting pot belief, the net immigration numbers per capita and the % of Canadians born abroad are much higher than in the US. The percentage of CDNs born abroad is quoted at around 22% these days.

 

The last time this % reached this level was in the early 20s and recent targets are deviating from trend (even adjusting for population growth) so asking questions about motivation and sustainability appear to be appropriate.

c-g02-eng.png

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Spartan, it looks to me like one of the reasons Japan and Europe are experiencing persistently low economic growth (leading to mild deflation) is because of flat or even declining population growth. (Rapidly aging population also becomes a drag on economic growth in future years).

 

Immigration = population growth = GDP growth

 

I think the rule of thumb is each 1% immigration increase leads to 1 to 2% increase in GDP.

 

Canada today has about 1% population growth due to immigration.

 

I am generally supportive of immigration as a tool to boost economic growth (and for other reasons as well). Canada is a massive country with a tiny population. If you look at Canada’s short history periods i think periods of high immigration were associated with strong economic growth in subsequent years.

 

Canada also tends to cherry pick (6 of 10 immigrants are accepted due to economic considerations).

 

Yes, we are in a recession. However, we will get through the recession and immigration will likely be the key driver that enables Canada to outperform other G7 economies in GDP growth moving forward (and keep the deflation wolves at bay).

 

- https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/infographics/immigration-economic-growth.html

 

Good summary of differences of how Canada and US handle immigration

- https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/layered-look-canadian-and-us-immigration

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