Post Office

[Mephistopheles]

I feel this one deserved its own topic. I'm sure most of you are familiar with what is happening.

 

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/19/903886567/trump-while-attacking-mail-voting-casts-mail-ballot-again

 

The fascist in chief has voted by mail after attacking the integrity of vote by mail nonsensically for months.

[Viking]

The surprising thing to me is this is an attack by Trump and Republicans (because they enable Trump) on basic American democracy. Right to vote and have it counted is a cornerstone of every legitimate democracy.

 

Under Trump the US is looking more and more like a banana republic (actually much worse...)

 

I am starting to better understand how leaders like Hitler and Mussolini come in to power and how they remained in power for so long. Simply incredible what is going on in plain view for everyone to see.

 

——————————-

Top Republican National Security Officials Say They Will Vote for Biden

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/20/us/politics/republican-national-security-biden.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

“While some of us hold policy positions that differ from those of Joe Biden and his party, the time to debate those policy differences will come later,” the new letter says. “For now, it is imperative that we stop Trump’s assault on our nation’s values and institutions and reinstate the moral foundations of our democracy.”

[Mephistopheles]

The surprising thing to me is this is an attack by Trump and Republicans (because they enable Trump) on basic American democracy. Right to vote and have it counted is a cornerstone of every legitimate democracy.

 

Under Trump the US is looking more and more like a banana republic.

 

I am starting to better understand how leaders like Hitler and Mussolini come in to power and how they remain in power. Simply incredible what is going on in plain view for everyone to see.

 

I share your sentiment. Full blown authoritarianism doesn't emerge overnight. The water has to boil at a slow pace so that the people do not notice until it's too late. When it happens nice and slow, the people grow numb to its happenings.

 

I think our system of government is strong enough to reverse such a thing if he loses. But if he wins, I am terrified that the damage will be irreversible.

[cwericb]

" Simply incredible what is going on in plain view for everyone to see."

 

And yet we have a number of people on this board who still don't see what is going on. They certainly have never studied world history.

[LC]

Oh it's absolutely disgusting.

 

He has crippled the majority of federal government services but installing inept, criminal comrades into leadership positions. Dept. of Energy, EPA, FCC, USPS...and that's just off the top of my head.

 

I think of it like this:

 

In the Oval Office, Trump has bent the Republican party over his medium-density fiberboard desk and has been screwing them for years. But you see, 85 percent of American men have larger hands than Trump. As do a third of women. So he's working with such a small "tool", you can't blame the Republicans for not feeling that they're getting screwed! They simply have no idea.

 

Now the Democrats are watching this, and they're screaming at the Republicans, "Hey guy, he's screwing you!" But the Republicans simply can't feel it! So you've got this whole messed up situation going on in the Oval Office, just because of this tiny prick!

[Jurgis]

I think of it like this:

 

In the Oval Office, Trump has bent the Republican party over his medium-density fiberboard desk and has been screwing them for years. But you see, 85 percent of American men have larger hands than Trump. As do a third of women. So he's working with such a small "tool", you can't blame the Republicans for not feeling that they're getting screwed! They simply have no idea.

 

Now the Democrats are watching this, and they're screaming at the Republicans, "Hey guy, he's screwing you!" But the Republicans simply can't feel it! So you've got this whole messed up situation going on in the Oval Office, just because of this tiny prick!

 

You just killed it man. Mic drop. Yuge respect.

[cwericb]

 

I think of it like this:

 

In the Oval Office, Trump has bent the Republican party over his medium-density fiberboard desk and has been screwing them for years. But you see, 85 percent of American men have larger hands than Trump. As do a third of women. So he's working with such a small "tool", you can't blame the Republicans for not feeling that they're getting screwed! They simply have no idea.

 

Now the Democrats are watching this, and they're screaming at the Republicans, "Hey guy, he's screwing you!" But the Republicans simply can't feel it! So you've got this whole messed up situation going on in the Oval Office, just because of this tiny prick!

 

Well said sir.

[Castanza]

Oh it's absolutely disgusting.

 

He has crippled the majority of federal government services but installing inept, criminal comrades into leadership positions. Dept. of Energy, EPA, FCC, USPS...and that's just off the top of my head.

 

I think of it like this:

 

In the Oval Office, Trump has bent the Republican party over his medium-density fiberboard desk and has been screwing them for years. But you see, 85 percent of American men have larger hands than Trump. As do a third of women. So he's working with such a small "tool", you can't blame the Republicans for not feeling that they're getting screwed! They simply have no idea.

 

Now the Democrats are watching this, and they're screaming at the Republicans, "Hey guy, he's screwing you!" But the Republicans simply can't feel it! So you've got this whole messed up situation going on in the Oval Office, just because of this tiny prick!

 

And they pick Joe Biden and Kamala Harris as the knight in shining armor?!!! Gtfoh. The fact is the choice for supreme leader are basically the same. You couldn’t hVe picked a worse duo for the Democratic Party! The problem with the Democratic Party is they don’t know how to build a platform that doesn’t make the American tax payer a blank check charity for society....

 

Joe Biden is Donald Trump on Valium....

[Gregmal]

Oh it's absolutely disgusting.

 

He has crippled the majority of federal government services but installing inept, criminal comrades into leadership positions. Dept. of Energy, EPA, FCC, USPS...and that's just off the top of my head.

 

I think of it like this:

 

In the Oval Office, Trump has bent the Republican party over his medium-density fiberboard desk and has been screwing them for years. But you see, 85 percent of American men have larger hands than Trump. As do a third of women. So he's working with such a small "tool", you can't blame the Republicans for not feeling that they're getting screwed! They simply have no idea.

 

Now the Democrats are watching this, and they're screaming at the Republicans, "Hey guy, he's screwing you!" But the Republicans simply can't feel it! So you've got this whole messed up situation going on in the Oval Office, just because of this tiny prick!

 

And they pick Joe Biden and Kamala Harris as the knight in shining armor?!!! Gtfoh. The fact is the choice for supreme leader are basically the same. You couldn’t hVe picked a worse duo for the Democratic Party! The problem with the Democratic Party is they don’t know how to build a platform that doesn’t make the American tax payer a blank check charity for society....

 

Joe Biden is Donald Trump on Valium....

 

Clearly, Castanza, you just cant see whats going on...and you probably didnt do too well in any history classes in skool!

[Guest Schwab711]

The problem with the Democratic Party is they don’t know how to build a platform that doesn’t make the American tax payer a blank check charity for society....

 

"They" is the voters of the Democratic party....

 

Biden is running on a deficit reduction platform that is upsetting the Democratic party. Biden is running on a platform to reduce executive power. This take is right up there with your virtue signaling posts about "how important" the constitution is to you while you whatabout every example of Trump's violations/disregard.

 

You can say you don't like Dems just because. Or that you like Trump because [blah]. At least those are honest. Making up reasons or false equivalence just looks ridiculous at this point. I think I've hit my limit with phony excuses and goal-post moving from Trump supporters. After 3 straight years of nearly unchanged polling, no one is going to change their mind at this point. You don't need to pretend like you care about corruption, deficits, the constitution, or whatever else anymore. Just say you don't like "them" (the 50% of the country that mildly disagrees with your opinions but shares all your values).

 

[Castanza]

The problem with the Democratic Party is they don’t know how to build a platform that doesn’t make the American tax payer a blank check charity for society....

 

"They" is the voters of the Democratic party....

 

Biden is running on a deficit reduction platform that is upsetting the Democratic party. Biden is running on a platform to reduce executive power. This take is right up there with your virtue signaling posts about "how important" the constitution is to you while you whatabout every example of Trump's violations/disregard.

 

 

You can say you don't like Dems just because. Or that you like Trump because [blah]. At least those are honest. Making up reasons or false equivalence just looks ridiculous at this point. I think I've hit my limit with phony excuses and goal-post moving from Trump supporters. After 3 straight years of nearly unchanged polling, no one is going to change their mind at this point. You don't need to pretend like you care about corruption, deficits, the constitution, or whatever else anymore. Just say you don't like "them" (the 50% of the country that mildly disagrees with your opinions but shares all your values).

 

I’m not a Trump supporter. Just calling out the democratic hypocrisy....Republicans have plenty of hypocrisy as well. But the idea that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are some knights in shinning armor coming to save democracy is fucking laughable.

 

Its even funnier when you look back to the last election and the votes for Hillary Clinton....

 

 

Pick a moderate candidate that doesn’t want to “fundamentally change” America and one who calls out the nonsense on your own parties side. People who say they’re voting for Biden act like he’s Gods gift to world leaders. They can’t even acknowledge the blatant hypocrisy and lies he has said.

 

How many times have I heard people bitch and moan about Trump because of his “education”. Yet there are videos of Biden saying he has three degrees and graduated top of his law school class. When in fact he has one and graduated almost dead last!

 

If you’re going to vote for Biden give me a better reason to vote for him than “he’s honest”,  “he has a good track record”, “he’s tough on China”, “he’s fiscally conservative” etc.

[Guest Schwab711]

If you’re going to vote for Biden give me a better reason to vote for him than... “he’s fiscally conservative”

 

You literally just wrote that this was the problem with the Dem platform...

 

I'm saying that  a large percentage of the Dem party is not enthusiastic about Biden because he's running on reducing budget deficits and doesn't want to fundamentally change America.  I'm pointing out your hypocrisy.

 

I don't care who you vote for and I have zero interest in convincing you who to vote for.

 

I'm mostly pointing out that your posts are often filled with a ton of assumptions that could easily be fact-checked before posting (like Biden's platform). It's just lazy, uninspired opinions. It's not just this thread but endemic of the forum as a whole. Maybe I'm taking it out on you but this forum is generally way too negative with little value-add in the investment section (there's probably one decent idea in the last couple months). I get you can ignore the politics section but I think it has infected the overall tone of the forum.

[Castanza]

If you’re going to vote for Biden give me a better reason to vote for him than... “he’s fiscally conservative”

 

You literally just wrote that this was the problem with the Dem platform...

 

I'm saying that  a large percentage of the Dem party is not enthusiastic about Biden because he's running on reducing budget deficits and doesn't want to fundamentally change America.  I'm pointing out your hypocrisy.

 

I don't care who you vote for and I have zero interest in convincing you who to vote for.

 

I'm mostly pointing out that your posts are often filled with a ton of assumptions that could easily be fact-checked before posting (like Biden's platform). It's just lazy, uninspired opinions. It's not just this thread but endemic of the forum as a whole. Maybe I'm taking it out on you but this forum is generally way too negative with little value-add in the investment section (there's probably one decent idea in the last couple months). I get you can ignore the politics section but I think it has infected the overall tone of the forum.

 

I was saying he isn’t fiscally conservative. I don’t need to read his platform when I can look at his 40 years in office. He’s also been blatantly racists with policies in the past.

 

How can can you approach politics without assumptions and guesses? I mean please share with me your political crystal ball that shows exactly what candidates will do. For Trump, nobody knew! How could anybody know what he was going to do? He stuck to what 1/5th of his platform? The guy was a democrat his whole life. Everyone already knew he was a POS so nobody cared.

 

I would have happily considered voting for Tulsi. But I really can’t see the benefit of Biden vs Trump. They’re much more similar than what people want to admit. Having Kamala at his side basically puts them on an even level in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

[LC]

Maybe I'm taking it out on you but this forum is generally way too negative with little value-add in the investment section (there's probably one decent idea in the last couple months). I get you can ignore the politics section but I think it has infected the overall tone of the forum.

 

We're at all time highs during a pandemic and rock bottom rates - difficult to generate standout ideas when there is such a divide between main & wall streets.

[Mephistopheles]

So I started this thread to point to the absurdity of a President crying wolf over mail in voting like it's some sort of deadly virus, and then proceeding to vote by mail himself.

 

I fail to see how the response: "the Democrats suck for picking Biden/Harris" has anything to do with this.

[Castanza]

So I started this thread to point to the absurdity of a President crying wolf over mail in voting like it's some sort of deadly virus, and then proceeding to vote by mail himself.

 

I fail to see how the response: "the Democrats suck for picking Biden/Harris" has anything to do with this.

 

You guys continue to fail to see the difference between mail in voting and absentee voting. One you have to request and your request is vetted. The other just gets mailed out to the masses from a database that has tons of errors. That is a big difference in terms of accuracy. Trump literally said two days ago. “I like absentee voting”.

 

Lastly, how the hell is Trump trying to rig an election when in person voting is still an option? If it’s that important to you and the entire future of democracy depends on Sleepy Joe getting elected, then go vote in person.....democracy > risk of Covid 19....right?

 

I mean, going to grocery stores, clothing stores, bars, parks, walks, pickup games, going to the beach, etc all seem to be important enough to risk going out. All of a sudden, in person voting is crossing the line....?

 

My response was to LC’s response.

[LC]

The other just gets mailed out to the masses from a database that has tons of errors. That is a big difference in terms of accuracy

 

Colorado and other states have been using mail in voting for YEARS with minimal problems.

 

Lastly, how the hell is Trump trying to rig an election when in person voting is still an option?

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-locations/southern-us-states-have-closed-1200-polling-places-in-recent-years-rights-group-idUSKCN1VV09J

 

Tons of polling stations closures in recent years. Normally, people would wait in line for HOURS to fulfill their civic duty despite Republican led efforts to make that as miserable and difficult as possible. Now with a pandemic, people will be forced to choose whether it is worth risking their health to vote Stumpy out of office.

 

Not to mention Stumpy and his campaign are STILL accepting and helping Russian led efforts to interfere in the US elections.

[Castanza]

The other just gets mailed out to the masses from a database that has tons of errors. That is a big difference in terms of accuracy

 

Colorado and other states have been using mail in voting for YEARS with minimal problems.

 

Lastly, how the hell is Trump trying to rig an election when in person voting is still an option?

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-locations/southern-us-states-have-closed-1200-polling-places-in-recent-years-rights-group-idUSKCN1VV09J

 

Tons of polling stations closures in recent years. Normally, people would wait in line for HOURS to fulfill their civic duty despite Republican led efforts to make that as miserable and difficult as possible. Now with a pandemic, people will be forced to choose whether it is worth risking their health to vote Stumpy out of office.

 

Not to mention Stumpy and his campaign are STILL accepting and helping Russian led efforts to interfere in the US elections.

 

And it took those states a long time to setup as mentioned before. Washington state took 5 years to get their mail in voting system ironed out. States following them take 6m-1year to have a properly vetted system. I've pointed this out so many times....

 

I've also pointed out your lack of evidence for your polling claim multiple times. Stacy Abrams in GA was complaining about this and then it was complete absurdity and proven false.

 

Hey look, Obama removed 12k USPS collection boxes...I guess he was rigging elections too right? Trump is the only one deliberately "gutting" the post office.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-remove-usps-mailboxes/

 

edit: And to make a counter point in favor of your view on mail in voting. I've seen a video floating around suggesting that the general election ballots will show party affiliation. This is false (although true for primaries) https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/verify-viral-video-shows-ballots-marked-democrat-or-republican/65-c681c77d-79f9-4232-9c4b-edc50dc2c4de

[cwericb]

“Not to mention Stumpy and his campaign are STILL accepting and helping Russian led efforts to interfere in the US elections.”

 

I can’t help but envision Putin sitting in his office somewhere in the Kremlin.

Tears are running down his face with laughter, while he pounds his desk saying, “Who needs a war? I can’t believe I'm going to get that a$$hole elected again!!”

[Gregmal]

Yea I mentioned earlier, maybe in another thread, an interesting question that of course went unanswered.....but, here it is again.

 

Even banning mail in voting altogether(not that I am in favor) does not prevent one from voting, as Castanza noted. But why is it, that any measure, IE voter registration, IDs, showing up to the polls, etc, gets given the narrative of favoring one party or the other? Is there a specific statistic that allows one to conclude that Democrats are just lazy, immobile, quitters with anything that requires effort, any more so than Republicans or Independents?

[cwericb]

Yea I mentioned earlier, maybe in another thread, an interesting question that of course went unanswered.....but, here it is again.

 

Even banning mail in voting altogether(not that I am in favor) does not prevent one from voting, as Castanza noted. But why is it, that any measure, IE voter registration, IDs, showing up to the polls, etc, gets given the narrative of favoring one party or the other? Is there a specific statistic that allows one to conclude that Democrats are just lazy, immobile, quitters with anything that requires effort, any more so than Republicans or Independents?

 

 

This is actually a good point. What is the reasoning that suggests that mail in voting would be more beneficial to one party over the other? What am I missing?

[LC]

But why is it, that any measure, IE voter registration, IDs, showing up to the polls, etc, gets given the narrative of favoring one party or the other? Is there a specific statistic that allows one to conclude that Democrats are just lazy, immobile, quitters with anything that requires effort, any more so than Republicans or Independents?

 

Well, what a dumb question.

 

No, more like evidence that "red" states have a history of intentionally disenfranchising minority voters (who predominately vote Democratic) by gerrymandering, closing polling stations in blue districts, impose strict ID laws, and use other voter suppression tactics EXPLICITLY targeted towards minority groups, as was the case in North Carolina:

 

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/court-cases/north-carolina-naacp-v-mccrory

Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals issued an opinion in July 2016 striking down HB 589 in its entirety because the court found it was passed with the intent to discriminate against the state’s African American voters, in violation of the Constitution and Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act. The opinion striking down the racially discriminatory law noted that the bill was designed to “target African Americans with almost surgical precision,” eliminating or reducing those voting practices most commonly used by Blacks in the state. The appellate court noted that the purported justification for passing the law, preventing voter fraud, did not hold up because the state had been unable to “identify even a single individual who has ever been charged with committing in-person voter fraud in North Carolina.”

 

And in on district in Texas (that was proven "intentional", other districts also exhibited racial bias but "racially biased intent" could not be proven - hmm sound familiar?):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbott_v._Perez#Concurrence_and_Dissent

In a 5–4 decision written by Justice Samuel Alito, the Court upheld the current redistricting maps as valid districts, outside of one district, Texas House District 90 near Fort Worth, which the court found was an "impermissible racial gerrymander", remanding the case to lower courts to correct the redistricting to eliminate the racial gerrymandering.[17]

 

This all stems from a Supreme Court decision:

 

Despite the VRA’s (Voting Right's Act) success in combating voting

discrimination, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down its

coverage formula in Shelby County v. Holder in 2013. In

so doing, justices rendered the VRA’s most powerful

provision — the Section 5 preclearance system —

inoperable, opening the door to racial discrimination

across the country at every juncture of the electoral

process. At the time, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg

foresaw the devastating impact the loss of preclearance

would have on voting rights in communities of color.

“Throwing out preclearance when it has worked and is

continuing to work to stop discriminatory changes is like

throwing away your umbrella in a rainstorm because you

are not getting wet,”8

she wrote in her dissenting opinion.

 

[Gregmal]

OK, but that is discrimination, which is a different issue. Subjectively applying these standards is wrong. But IMO, equally, and across the board, they make sense. Making voting so ripe for abuse is just as much a threat to democracy and limiting it. I dont think Ive ever gone to vote and not had to present an ID. It seems the take between the two sides is either open/close the flood gates, and neither is really the answer.

[LC]

And it took those states a long time to setup as mentioned before. Washington state took 5 years to get their mail in voting system ironed out. States following them take 6m-1year to have a properly vetted system. I've pointed this out so many times....

 

I've also pointed out your lack of evidence for your polling claim multiple times. Stacy Abrams in GA was complaining about this and then it was complete absurdity and proven false.

 

Hey look, Obama removed 12k USPS collection boxes...I guess he was rigging elections too right? Trump is the only one deliberately "gutting" the post office.

 

In reverse....

Obama removed USPS sorting machines and collection boxes 3-5 months before an election during a viral pandemic?

 

Lack of evidence? Look at the visual representation of polling station reduction in southern states:

https://civilrights.org/democracy-diverted/

 

And read this report while you're at it:

http://civilrightsdocs.info/pdf/reports/Democracy-Diverted.pdf

 

The Leadership Conference Education Fund identified 868 polling place closures in formerly Section 5 jurisdictions in our initial report

 

Section 5 jurisdictions are areas where voting changes were previously needed to be reported as they exhibited potentially racial bias. No evidence? More like no research on your part!

 

Finally, it has been 7 months since February since this pandemic started. If you say it takes States 6 months to establish a vote-by-mail system, imagine what Federal resources could do to speed that up. I think it is certainly plausible to expand existing absentee voting systems in a large number of states in this time frame.

[LC]

OK, but that is discrimination, which is a different issue. Subjectively applying these standards is wrong. But IMO, equally, and across the board, they make sense. Making voting so ripe for abuse is just as much a threat to democracy and limiting it. I dont think Ive ever gone to vote and not had to present an ID. It seems the take between the two sides is either open/close the flood gates, and neither is really the answer.

 

Come to Colorado buddy, I'll pay for the beer.

 

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/08/16/colorado-denver-mail-voting-usps-2020-election/

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/the-cybersecurity-202/2018/05/10/the-cybersecurity-202-how-colorado-became-the-safest-state-to-cast-a-vote/5af317c930fb042db5797427/

 

We have the SAFEST and EASIEST voting system in the nation.