Jump to content

Police State


Mephistopheles
 Share

Recommended Posts

https://www.opb.org/news/article/federal-law-enforcement-unmarked-vehicles-portland-protesters/

 

Federal "officers" without badges in camouflage kidnapped protestors without saying a word, refusing to identify themselves, and took them away in unmarked vans. This after the situation in DC a few weeks ago when men without identification, with guns stood guard in front of the White House.

 

Every single day the DOJ pulls something new to get us ever closer towards a fascist state.

 

As a moderate with libertarian leanings who loathes taxes, I would take Bernie Sanders any day over Trump. I don't think our country, or the world, can survive in its present form with a second Trump term.

 

Edit: Sorry, Parsad, can you please move this to Politics

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 85
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Everyone should be terrified of what's going on. Full blown authoritarian leaders don't become that way overnight, but only gradually, like boiling a pot of water with a frog already in it.

 

Has anyone paid attention to Bill Barr's antics at the DOJ? Personally getting involved and dismissing charges against Trump associates, firing U.S. attorneys that are investigating Trump. Don't forget "summarizing" the Mueller report prior to its release.

 

And of course the 800 lb gorilla in the room. Voter suppression is alive and real. I have no faith that the timid Democrats will do everything in their power to protect the election. No, they're too busy attacking Jeff Bezos and ejaculating over the renaming of the Redskins.

 

I am 100% confident that Trump will lose the popular vote but am unsure about what that means in terms of who wins the election.

 

This article is so chilling:

 

https://www.salon.com/2020/06/15/investigative-journalist-greg-palast-heres-how-trump-will-steal-the-2020-election/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I cannot believe you guys cannot tell the difference between a real police state/autocratic state (China) & blowhard with limited power (US).  Authoritarian leaders have deep benches of folks to impose their views on others.  Where is Trump's deep bench other than his own mind? 

 

Packer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where is Trump's deep bench other than his own mind?

 

The very topic of this thread is DOJ employees kidnapping US citizens. The AG himself has made complete mockery of the word Justice and functions as Trump's personal hit man.

 

Off topic, but the China comparison is not a convincing argument...by the same logic you could dismiss China's crimes against the Uyghurs by saying they pale in comparison to a "real" genocidal Nazi regime.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me ask those who think we are going down the path of Fascism, have you studied the tactics/methods & historical context that led to the rise of those regimes & compared to US today? If not, I would suggest you do as this comparison is as valid as comparing 2008/9 to the Great Depression. 

 

I think this includes a good amount of speculation & the result is what picking up people & releasing them in response to a riot? Was there an imprisonment without due process?  How that is comparable to black or brownshirts killing your political enemies & putting your opponents in concentration camps I do not know.

 

Packer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where is Trump's deep bench other than his own mind?

 

The very topic of this thread is DOJ employees kidnapping US citizens. The AG himself has made complete mockery of the word Justice and functions as Trump's personal hit man.

 

Off topic, but the China comparison is not a convincing argument...by the same logic you could dismiss China's crimes against the Uyghurs by saying they pale in comparison to a "real" genocidal Nazi regime.

 

Dude, they have their culture and you have yours. Don't be such a bigot!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me ask those who think we are going down the path of Fascism, have you studied the tactics/methods & historical context that led to the rise of those regimes & compared to US today? If not, I would suggest you do as this comparison is as valid as comparing 2008/9 to the Great Depression. 

 

I think this includes a good amount of speculation & the result is what picking up people & releasing them in response to a riot? Was there an imprisonment without due process?  How that is comparable to black or brownshirts killing your political enemies & putting your opponents in concentration camps I do not know.

 

Packer

Border Patrol agents should not be picking American civilians off the streets, this should be left to the states. Of course there has been a mass countrywide protest against state police and national guard overstepping their boundaries for the past month or two, but this crosses a whole new line and a dangerous one. Again, no comparison to concentration camps but that was not the point. Were they released? I don't know. Were they taken without probably cause? Likely.

 

 

 

Where is Trump's deep bench other than his own mind?

 

The very topic of this thread is DOJ employees kidnapping US citizens. The AG himself has made complete mockery of the word Justice and functions as Trump's personal hit man.

 

Off topic, but the China comparison is not a convincing argument...by the same logic you could dismiss China's crimes against the Uyghurs by saying they pale in comparison to a "real" genocidal Nazi regime.

 

Bingo. When you have the most powerful law enforcement officer in the country acting as the personal attorney of the President, it is unprecedented. I am fearful of the shit he's going to pull during the election. Will the secret police be picking up liberal "protestors" (voters) off the streets? I don't think anything is out of the realm of possibilities, and it should be the #1 focus of the Democrats, but it's not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree things have gotten a little out of hand, but I cant see for the life of me how anyone raising concerns about this topic while even pretending not to have an agenda hasn't brought up the most blatant example... the use of the FBI and DOJ to spy on and interfere with a political opponent. Same as with the Trump campaign(again trying to be logically consistent), many of these protesters must be aware that they run the risk of being found guilty by association.

 

Another big problem in America, is that people who complain about large issues have no problem being silent about the same issues when the situation falls outside there smaller circle of "their issues". Racism should be unequivocally wrong. Period. Police brutality should be unequivocally wrong. Period. Black live should matter. Period. Sadly this isn't the case to most, especially the ones who try to "appear" to be fighting the issue the hardest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh I totally agree on using the FBI to spy on political opponents. Another tool straight from the authoritarian playbook.

 

On your second point I don't think people disagree, but there is a difference between public and private activities. Taxpayers can demand change to police departments in light of evidence of racism and police brutality. We fund the police - we should control who is hired/fired and make demands upon them.

 

It is a lot harder to demand change from black criminals in Chicago who are responsible for black-on-black violence in that city, for example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a lot harder to demand change from black criminals in Chicago who are responsible for black-on-black violence in that city, for example.

 

True, but again this comes back to some of the core issues regarding laziness and self serving motives. You really, REALLY, want to make a positive change, then go all out. I am sure there are some well intentioned but ultimately misguided protesters. But there's also a lot of cowards and simply people with ulterior motives. You cant tell me the taxpayers in Chicago dont know where, or which neighborhood the violence is coming from.....thats bs. Want to really combat the issue of black lives? Get your asses out in those neighborhoods, in HUGE numbers..... but no. Its a lot easier leaking locations to the press so you can grandstand and antagonize police officers, bound by codes of conduct and in the moment held captive to that by all the media cameras undoubtedly on them and waiting for their shot at the next "exhibit" of brutality. Much, much easier to go that route then show up in terrible neighborhood where laws are REALLY meaningless and your physical safety is in question because no media member wants to go there and you've already done your best to drive out the cops!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean fuck, you can storm police headquarters and destroy landmarks....but you dumbasses cant go ransack the neighborhood drug den and throw all the drug dealers out on their asses or engage in another "constitutional right", the citizens arrest, and drag those criminals asses to the precinct? Please....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me ask those who think we are going down the path of Fascism, have you studied the tactics/methods & historical context that led to the rise of those regimes & compared to US today? If not, I would suggest you do as this comparison is as valid as comparing 2008/9 to the Great Depression. 

 

I think this includes a good amount of speculation & the result is what picking up people & releasing them in response to a riot? Was there an imprisonment without due process?  How that is comparable to black or brownshirts killing your political enemies & putting your opponents in concentration camps I do not know.

 

Packer

Dude what are you even talking about. Why does any of that even matter?

 

You have Little Green Men snatching people off the street into unmarked vans. IN THE UNITED STATES! Unbelievable!

 

It doesn't really get more police statey than that. And the reply is well let's see if it's done the same like the Nazis did it? Or something about benches? Or my favourite: well at least we don't put them in concentration camps.... yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All I am saying is we will know the details over time & the situation they were picked up in had some rioting & vandalism.  Jumping to conclusions that we are in a police state is pretty extreme as was my response. Let’s see how this plays out over time when all the facts are known.

 

Packer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean fuck, you can storm police headquarters and destroy landmarks....but you dumbasses cant go ransack the neighborhood drug den and throw all the drug dealers out on their asses or engage in another "constitutional right", the citizens arrest, and drag those criminals asses to the precinct? Please....

 

Good point Greg. I am surprised no one else has chimed in on this. Not only would your solution be much more time/energy efficient, but it would also significantly increase the positive ripple effect of a proactive community and protest. The failures to do this, despite it being a rather simple solution, really do highlight the fact that most active participants in these causes are phonies and total frauds, and that the people not participating but supporting it on a verbal level, are really just partisan hacks. I mean even on a basic level, these citizens cant even bother to call the local police on gang/drug activity in their communities?

 

After all, we complain about police culture; and it is indeed deserving of criticism, but ignore, largely from the same folks, the mongrelization of their own society, with such community wide slogans and attitudes as "snitches get stitches". Which translated into English, basically mean, if you dare stand up for or try to enforce the rules designed to protect and keep safe your community, you will be ostracized and likely face physical harm...these people are frauds and fakes as obvious as the George Floyd $20 bill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean fuck, you can storm police headquarters and destroy landmarks....but you dumbasses cant go ransack the neighborhood drug den and throw all the drug dealers out on their asses or engage in another "constitutional right", the citizens arrest, and drag those criminals asses to the precinct? Please....

 

Good point Greg. I am surprised no one else has chimed in on this. Not only would your solution be much more time/energy efficient, but it would also significantly increase the positive ripple effect of a proactive community and protest.

Forget to log into your alt account? :D

 

Taxpayers pay POLICE to do exactly what you are saying. When the police misbehave, taxpayers don't do their job for them, they find better police!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All I am saying is we will know the details over time & the situation they were picked up in had some rioting & vandalism.  Jumping to conclusions that we are in a police state is pretty extreme as was my response. Let’s see how this plays out over time when all the facts are known.

 

Packer

 

Yes. Jumping to conclusions is usually never prudent. Most will agree there. I think what concerns myself and others is the fact that Trump's DOJ did this in the first place, given it is a blatant violation of the spirit & letter of the Constitution.

 

I mean, if a government takes a "Do First, Ask Forgiveness Later" approach to breaking its own founding principles, that is pretty concerning at least in my opinion. But thank you for sharing yours as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean fuck, you can storm police headquarters and destroy landmarks....but you dumbasses cant go ransack the neighborhood drug den and throw all the drug dealers out on their asses or engage in another "constitutional right", the citizens arrest, and drag those criminals asses to the precinct? Please....

 

Good point Greg. I am surprised no one else has chimed in on this. Not only would your solution be much more time/energy efficient, but it would also significantly increase the positive ripple effect of a proactive community and protest.

Forget to log into your alt account? :D

 

Taxpayers pay POLICE to do exactly what you are saying. When the police misbehave, taxpayers don't do their job for them, they find better police!

Either that or it's time to move this to the what are you drinking today thread.  ;D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean fuck, you can storm police headquarters and destroy landmarks....but you dumbasses cant go ransack the neighborhood drug den and throw all the drug dealers out on their asses or engage in another "constitutional right", the citizens arrest, and drag those criminals asses to the precinct? Please....

 

Good point Greg. I am surprised no one else has chimed in on this. Not only would your solution be much more time/energy efficient, but it would also significantly increase the positive ripple effect of a proactive community and protest.

Forget to log into your alt account? :D

 

Taxpayers pay POLICE to do exactly what you are saying. When the police misbehave, taxpayers don't do their job for them, they find better police!

 

 

LOL Just pointing out that the absurdity(and crickets here), let alone stupidity of talking about "Black Lives Matter" and then focusing on something that accounts for less than 1% of black deaths annually, while you have a giant fucking gorilla in your living room that accounts for more than 75% of them....well, its about as intelligent as Andy Kaufman seeking out pseudoscientific treatments to cure his cancer. Soooo freaking dumb that your "stated" objective, cant possibly be your actual intended objective, simply because, there are SOOOOOO many other, much more productive and obvious ways to go about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All I am saying is we will know the details over time & the situation they were picked up in had some rioting & vandalism.  Jumping to conclusions that we are in a police state is pretty extreme as was my response. Let’s see how this plays out over time when all the facts are known.

 

Packer

 

Yes. Jumping to conclusions is usually never prudent. Most will agree there. I think what concerns myself and others is the fact that Trump's DOJ did this in the first place, given it is a blatant violation of the spirit & letter of the Constitution.

 

I mean, if a government takes a "Do First, Ask Forgiveness Later" approach to breaking its own founding principles, that is pretty concerning at least in my opinion. But thank you for sharing yours as well.

Well I strongly disagree. When Little Green Men with unmarked vans show up you don't take a wait and see approach. That never worked out well.

 

In fact since we're going into constitutional things wasn't the 2A put in place specifically for something like this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In fact since we're going into constitutional things wasn't the 2A put in place specifically for something like this?

 

2A was put in place so dudes with gunz could not wear masks. Or maybe so they could wear masks.

 

It's rather confusing nowadays.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh look, snatch and grabs coming soon to a city near you.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-race-protests-trump/trump-plans-to-send-federal-law-enforcement-personnel-to-democratic-led-u-s-cities-idUSKCN24L1ZN

 

I'm old enough to remember a time. It was a simpler time. Some black guy was president, and the Gov of Texas (Greg Abbott) raised a big fuss and deployed the Texas National Guard in response to a planned military exercise just in case that guy would invade Texas and arrest political dissidents. Y'all remember that time?

 

Help me out here what do you think the reaction would have been if Obama or Eric Holder sent Little Green Men in unmarked vans to snatch people prancing with guns off the streets? Do you think we would have seen brains splattered all over the lenses of fox news cameras from all the heads exploding or would the reaction have been "we should wait, not jump to conclusions, let's have some more information."?

 

By the way, where's the NRA during all of this? For years they've been saying that we should all have guns exactly and precisely for a moment like this. One would think that the NRA would not be able to contain its excitement. If I was the NRA I'd be front and center with a big "I TOLD YOU SO!" message. But instead all of a sudden... crickets.

 

Finally, I'd like the big patriots around here to help me out a bit. As of right now i have: having to wear a mask=Tyranny, Little Green Men grabbing people off the streets in unmarked vans=Kinda OK. Do I have this freedom thing right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share




×
×
  • Create New...