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Deck Chairs on the Titanic: US Civil War Edition


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I think this thread is a good place to say that the whole Confederate flag and racism issue is likely a misunderstanding:

 

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An southern pastor said to his congregation, "Someone in this congregation has spread a rumor that I belong to the Ku Klux Klan. This is a horrible lie and one which a Christian community cannot tolerate. I am embarrassed and do not intend to accept this. Now, I want the party who said this to stand and ask forgiveness from God and this Christian family."

 

No one moved. The preacher continued, "Do you have the nerve to face me and admit this is a falsehood? Remember, you will be forgiven and in your heart you will feel glory. Now stand and confess your transgression." Again, all was quiet.

 

Then, slowly, a drop-dead gorgeous blonde with a body that would stop a runaway train rose from the third pew. Her head was bowed and her voice quivered as she spoke, "Reverend there has been a terrible misunderstanding. I never said you were a member of the Ku Klux Klan. I simply told a couple of my friends that you were a wizard under the sheets."

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I think this thread is a good place to say that the whole Confederate flag and racism issue is likely a misunderstanding:

How dare you put a joke in the "Deck Chairs on the Titanic: US Civil War Edition" thread?

 

This thread is reserved for sowing hate and division and hastening the downfall of western society during one of the greatest challenges we've ever faced! Humor has no place here.

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I think this thread is a good place to say that the whole Confederate flag and racism issue is likely a misunderstanding:

How dare you put a joke in the "Deck Chairs on the Titanic: US Civil War Edition" thread?

 

This thread is reserved for sowing hate and division and hastening the downfall of western society during one of the greatest challenges we've ever faced! Humor has no place here.

 

I apologize, your honor.

 

I will attempt to contribute appropriately.

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I think this thread is a good place to say that the whole Confederate flag and racism issue is likely a misunderstanding:

How dare you put a joke in the "Deck Chairs on the Titanic: US Civil War Edition" thread?

 

This thread is reserved for sowing hate and division and hastening the downfall of western society during one of the greatest challenges we've ever faced! Humor has no place here.

 

I apologize, your honor.

 

I will attempt to contribute appropriately.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

If we don't draw the line somewhere, then we will spend our time arguing about confederate flags and religion.

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i hesitate to feed the beast but here's a recent report:

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/social_issues/40_of_gop_voters_think_civil_war_likely

 

These kinds of reports generally overestimate "change" and underestimate "adaptation" and the US still has huge social capital but i'm haunted presently by a section of the book The Prize (oil) by Daniel Yergin (as suggested by a CoBF member a few weeks ago). In 1978, there was an elderly, irate and expatriated Ayatollah who was heavily discounted. But he was to benefit from chaos.

 

BTW, the question about the "North" and the Reconstruction period was fascinating but this forum is not the place to expand on that.

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i hesitate to feed the beast but here's a recent report:

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/social_issues/40_of_gop_voters_think_civil_war_likely

 

These kinds of reports generally overestimate "change" and underestimate "adaptation" and the US still has huge social capital but i'm haunted presently by a section of the book The Prize (oil) by Daniel Yergin (as suggested by a CoBF member a few weeks ago). In 1978, there was an elderly, irate and expatriated Ayatollah who was heavily discounted. But he was to benefit from chaos.

 

BTW, the question about the "North" and the Reconstruction period was fascinating but this forum is not the place to expand on that.

One way to kill this flag conversation is to write something intelligent and reference a credible article. I don't think you're feeding the beast.

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I can't help but notice that SCOTUS dealt two major blows to Trump this week with the decisions written by conservative judges on the issues of DACA and LGBTQ rights.

 

In this time of fracture with the government sowing further division, I think this may have been a deliberate move to ask conservatives to write the decisions.

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In the wake of the killing of two law enforcement officers in Northern California, more attention is being directed to the “boogaloo” movement, a far-right fringe group that has been tied to violence around the country.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/far-boogaloo-boys-linked-killing-155302810.html

 

But if I read Breitbart or Fox News, they are aggregating stories about violence from the left.  Trump only talks of Antifa as well.

 

With this talk of civil war, it is sort of obvious that the media is sowing division.

 

I am going to finish reading a book that I started a month ago but put down:  Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky.  I'm expecting it to say "I told you so".

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I love hearing all about Noam Chomsky, Karl Marx and Lenin - the same old "oppressor/oppressed" story.

 

Give us your book report and I'll send you a nice Che Guevara t-shirt.

 

Cubs, I never took you for an intellectual.

 

For once we agree on something.

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Title: Facebook Removes Trump Ads Displaying Symbol Used by Nazis

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/us/politics/facebook-trump-ads-antifa-red-triangle.html

 

Or, a different view:

 

https://nypost.com/2020/06/18/facebook-breaks-own-free-speech-policy-over-bogus-symbol-of-hate-charge/

 

 

Is it more likely that Trump is a Nazi lover or that he (or rather his team) didn't know the historical use and just assumed it was a symbol for antifa?

 

I know fighting Nazis gets more views but it his highly misleading (and a reason that people mistrust the media).

 

 

 

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Title: Facebook Removes Trump Ads Displaying Symbol Used by Nazis

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/us/politics/facebook-trump-ads-antifa-red-triangle.html

 

Or, a different view:

 

https://nypost.com/2020/06/18/facebook-breaks-own-free-speech-policy-over-bogus-symbol-of-hate-charge/

 

 

Is it more likely that Trump is a Nazi lover or that he (or rather his team) didn't know the historical use and just assumed it was a symbol for antifa?

 

I know fighting Nazis gets more views but it his highly misleading (and a reason that people mistrust the media).

 

Former Secretary of State Tillerson said that Trump doesn't read, listen to briefings, or want.details.

 

So I think it is most likely that Trump is an ignorant man.  But that doesn't mean that his team is ignorant.

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Title: Facebook Removes Trump Ads Displaying Symbol Used by Nazis

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/us/politics/facebook-trump-ads-antifa-red-triangle.html

 

Or, a different view:

 

https://nypost.com/2020/06/18/facebook-breaks-own-free-speech-policy-over-bogus-symbol-of-hate-charge/

 

 

Is it more likely that Trump is a Nazi lover or that he (or rather his team) didn't know the historical use and just assumed it was a symbol for antifa?

 

I know fighting Nazis gets more views but it his highly misleading (and a reason that people mistrust the media).

 

Former Secretary of State Tillerson said that Trump doesn't read, listen to briefings, or want.details.

 

So I think it is most likely that Trump is an ignorant man.  But that doesn't mean that his team is ignorant.

 

So you really think they are Nazi sympathizers?

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Title: Facebook Removes Trump Ads Displaying Symbol Used by Nazis

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/us/politics/facebook-trump-ads-antifa-red-triangle.html

 

Or, a different view:

 

https://nypost.com/2020/06/18/facebook-breaks-own-free-speech-policy-over-bogus-symbol-of-hate-charge/

 

 

Is it more likely that Trump is a Nazi lover or that he (or rather his team) didn't know the historical use and just assumed it was a symbol for antifa?

 

I know fighting Nazis gets more views but it his highly misleading (and a reason that people mistrust the media).

 

Former Secretary of State Tillerson said that Trump doesn't read, listen to briefings, or want.details.

 

So I think it is most likely that Trump is an ignorant man.  But that doesn't mean that his team is ignorant.

 

So you really think they are Nazi sympathizers?

 

You take my words and jump to conclusions, while you appear to be simultaneously objecting that Facebook jumped to conclusions.

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I do think it's a bit ironic that Trump's team used the "political prisoner" symbolism as it singles out Antifa amongst all of the extremist groups in America.

 

Sure, but I would need evidence to believe they're Nazi sympathizers. I don't go on very, very loose associations from a very, very biased group.

 

A less biased headline might read: Facebook Removes Trump Ads Displaying Symbol Used by Antifa.

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Title: Facebook Removes Trump Ads Displaying Symbol Used by Nazis

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/us/politics/facebook-trump-ads-antifa-red-triangle.html

 

Or, a different view:

 

https://nypost.com/2020/06/18/facebook-breaks-own-free-speech-policy-over-bogus-symbol-of-hate-charge/

 

 

Is it more likely that Trump is a Nazi lover or that he (or rather his team) didn't know the historical use and just assumed it was a symbol for antifa?

 

I know fighting Nazis gets more views but it his highly misleading (and a reason that people mistrust the media).

 

Former Secretary of State Tillerson said that Trump doesn't read, listen to briefings, or want.details.

 

So I think it is most likely that Trump is an ignorant man.  But that doesn't mean that his team is ignorant.

 

So you really think they are Nazi sympathizers?

 

You take my words and jump to conclusions, while you appear to be simultaneously objecting that Facebook jumped to conclusions.

 

You might be right.

 

But, my original question said "Is it more likely that Trump is a Nazi lover or that he (or rather his team) didn't know the historical use and just assumed it was a symbol for antifa? "

 

You then said that Trump is ignorant but that doesn't mean his team is ignorant.

 

Which says, to me at least, that you don't think his team is ignorant (otherwise you would have stated they were both ignorant). You differentiated between the two.

 

If they aren't ignorant, that means they used it deliberately right?

 

If they used it deliberately, wouldn't that imply that you feel they're more like Nazi sympathizers than ignorant?

 

Perhaps you worded it poorly but that's what I gathered from it. Because if you wanted to imply they were both ignorant rather than nazi lovers (like my question had originally been asked) it was worded quite poorly. 

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A less biased headline might read: Facebook Removes Trump Ads Displaying Symbol Used by Antifa.

 

That would look arbitrary and they would be accused of singling out Trump for no reason -- readers need to know what Facebook deems offensive about the symbol used by Antifa.  IMO it is very correct to explain that they are removing the ad because of a symbol that was used by the Nazis.  Everyone knows how offensive it is to post symbols used by the Nazis.

 

Is it that big of an imposition on Trump to take out the symbol and post the ad again?  This is like him whining that the Supreme Court doesn't like him because they ruled against him.

 

I have not seen Antifa associated with that symbol anywhere in America except in Trump's campaign ads.  I've read that Antifa uses it in the Netherlands.

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Which says, to me at least, that you don't think his team is ignorant (otherwise you would have stated they were both ignorant). You differentiated between the two.

 

If they aren't ignorant, that means they used it deliberately right?

 

They very well may have used it deliberately to associate Antifa with the Nazis.  After all, they defended themselves by saying that it's a symbol used by Antifa.

 

Who knows why they used it.  It's ignorance or poor taste. 

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