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Elizabeth plummets in polls


RuleNumberOne
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Elizabeth tried to win by spreading lies and creating/stoking envy.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-26/elizabeth-warren-loses-momentum-in-2020-race-after-steady-rise?srnd=premium

 

"The survey found that over the last month, Warren has fallen by 7 points among Democratic voters asked who has the “best policy ideas” (though she still led in that category), 10 points on who’s the most electable against President Donald Trump, 14 points on who cares most about people like you, 9 points on who the ”most honest” candidate is, and 14 points on who the “most intelligent” contender is."

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  • 1 month later...

Finally some good news!

 

Maybe that America will finally puke out all of these idiots including Sanders and even that billionaire Steyer.

 

The socialist mentality is "A rule for thee, but not for me."

 

"I've played my part"

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/01/10/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-defends-her-decision-not-pay-dccc-dues/4435201002/

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I really hate her student loan forgiveness plan. That'll give free reign to colleges to not be disciplined at all. The reason that college was so much cheaper when she was a student...was because the government wasn't in it to the extent that it is today.

 

It is especially galling as Warren got rich off of the education industrial complex.

 

Of course, almost all polls in this day & age are simply non-sense.  Who could ever have thought that Warren would get ANYWHERE at all?  That Trump would simply demolish her in debates?  That her "Indian" heritage would make her simply a non-starter.  That hordes of protestors would not descend upon her rallies, debates & speeches doing the "tomahawk chop" and loud "war whoops"?  Complete anarchy.

 

She is a fool and will soon exit the stage.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've liked Warren for a long time. I can't really get over this whole tuition forgiveness though.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479608-warren-confronted-by-man-at-campaign-event-over-tuition-reimbursement

 

I went to a community college and then transferred to a 4 year school. I even went to a lower level school because I wanted to get out without any loans. I lived at home and didn't take wild vacations. So the folks that lived it up get it all for free while I busted it? Thanks Senator Warren! 

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I went to a community college and then transferred to a 4 year school. I even went to a lower level school because I wanted to get out without any loans. I lived at home and didn't take wild vacations. So the folks that lived it up get it all for free while I busted it? Thanks Senator Warren!

Well, as we have only so much time left to poke each other's ribs here in the politics section, I'll just say that your post reminds me of the good old Trolly Problem, slightly modified:

 

fzfitw1d2f341.png

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I went to a community college and then transferred to a 4 year school. I even went to a lower level school because I wanted to get out without any loans. I lived at home and didn't take wild vacations. So the folks that lived it up get it all for free while I busted it? Thanks Senator Warren!

Well, as we have only so much time left to poke each other's ribs here in the politics section, I'll just say that your post reminds me of the good old Trolly Problem, slightly modified:

 

fzfitw1d2f341.png

 

That example only makes sense if in fact people are dying. Or maybe if people were choosing to tie themselves to the tracks. In reality you’re simply asking people to be more financially responsible and also asking authority figures to not push “education or not future”.

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I disagree on both items:

 

-I think the student loan situation does have the potential to be a serious problem (https://hbr.org/2019/09/what-will-it-take-to-solve-the-student-loan-crisis)

 

-Whether people are choosing to "tie themselves to the tracks" or not is one thing. But you cannot disagree that a large portion of certain demographic cohorts are "on the tracks" regardless of choice.

 

But ultimately I don't like the argument that was used: "I managed to avoid this problem, so it's unfair to those like me if we solve it!"

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I disagree on both items:

 

-I think the student loan situation does have the potential to be a serious problem (https://hbr.org/2019/09/what-will-it-take-to-solve-the-student-loan-crisis)

 

-Whether people are choosing to "tie themselves to the tracks" or not is one thing. But you cannot disagree that a large portion of certain demographic cohorts are "on the tracks" regardless of choice.

 

But ultimately I don't like the argument that was used: "I managed to avoid this problem, so it's unfair to those like me if we solve it!"

 

You don’t “manage” to avoid the problem. Student loans and college are not life requirements. It’s a conscious choice and decision to take them out. Just like it’s a conscious decision to buy a house buy a car etc. I have no problem with finding a solution (get govt out of lending). But the idea that nobody should feel any pain for a poor financial decision (whether misguided or not) is well ridiculous. Consequences are what help society choose the best path forward in the future.

 

This is like me getting a DUI and then having the judge rule everyone in my family serve one month prison time until it covers my full sentence. That way nobody (specifically me) has to deal with consequences.

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It does suck that these loans can't eventually be discharged in bankruptcy. To saddle people forever, just because they are student loans, and these young

people were dumb does not seem fair.

 

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be efforts to help ease the pain. I’m saying it shouldn’t come on the dime of those who are fiscally responsible or those who have paid off their loans etc.

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It does suck that these loans can't eventually be discharged in bankruptcy. To saddle people forever, just because they are student loans, and these young

people were dumb does not seem fair.

 

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be efforts to help ease the pain. I’m saying it shouldn’t come on the dime of those who are fiscally responsible or those who have paid off their loans etc.

 

I know, and agree - this is a tough problem. And the schools that pushed these worthless expensive degrees should have the hammer brought down on them. Bankruptcy creates a lot of pain, and perhaps after some LONG time, they should be allowed to. Maybe the schools should be required to forgive a portion as well for selling young people down the river.

 

Any degree that has the word "studies" at the end of it should be banned. Schools ought to get back to more traditional courses.

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I went to a community college and then transferred to a 4 year school. I even went to a lower level school because I wanted to get out without any loans. I lived at home and didn't take wild vacations. So the folks that lived it up get it all for free while I busted it? Thanks Senator Warren!

Well, as we have only so much time left to poke each other's ribs here in the politics section, I'll just say that your post reminds me of the good old Trolly Problem, slightly modified:

 

fzfitw1d2f341.png

 

Hopefully you're also okay bailing out folks who made poor/risky/dumb investment decisions or spent their money for beer, traveling, etc. rather than saving for retirement, too. ;)

 

 

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See this is kind of the issue. There is this misconception that its largely hard working, diligent, lower income kids who go to college and are left holding thousands in debt and a worthless degree. But this is hardly the case at all. Its the glut of entitled millennials studying completely bogus things that have no practical real world application other than the lucky guy or gal who gets face time on the documentaries about saving the elephants or cleaning up the oceans. The sense of entitlement, as well as the desire to "experience" college, traveling, and socializing, all play as big a part in the equation as the shitty and dishonest education system. A lot of it is a choice.

 

I attended college with the intention of going to law school. I researched the top majors of law school entrants and chose to double major in History and English. I killed the LSATs. Then the financial crisis happened. I thought finance was interesting and for shits put off law school and got myself into a job without having any of the "you're supposed to go to school for this if you want to do finance" qualifications. And this was in 2010 when finance was dead and no one else was hiring. I just worked hard and started at the bottom using common sense. So many of these folks, they are either stupid, or not trying hard enough.

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There is this misconception that its largely hard working, diligent, lower income kids who go to college and are left holding thousands in debt and a worthless degree. But this is hardly the case at all. Its the glut of entitled millennials studying completely bogus things that have no practical real world application other than the lucky guy or gal who gets face time on the documentaries about saving the elephants or cleaning up the oceans

 

Do you have any reference for this? To my knowledge there is no data which compiles total outstanding debt per degree or even per profession.

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If the government adopts a policy of paying off all college debt, I would think it would lead to a change of habits.  For example, people won't save for college and won't work their way through college.  It may also lead to a drying up of private dollars for scholarships as private donors no longer believe it is helping anyone to provide tuition assistance.

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There is this misconception that its largely hard working, diligent, lower income kids who go to college and are left holding thousands in debt and a worthless degree. But this is hardly the case at all. Its the glut of entitled millennials studying completely bogus things that have no practical real world application other than the lucky guy or gal who gets face time on the documentaries about saving the elephants or cleaning up the oceans

 

Do you have any reference for this? To my knowledge there is no data which compiles total outstanding debt per degree or even per profession.

 

Nothing that Ive gone out of my way to find, but something that if I could collect $5 for every story with the same tale Ive heard, I could pay off the student loans myself.

 

Stuff like this

 

 

There are no shortage of well intended, starry eyed, but naive as fuck kids riding the wave of various social trends, thinking that this is the future without realizing a lot of it is bullshit. The problem isn't entirely costs. What has created the problem, the astounding rise in tuition rates, and the rest of this bubble, is basically unlimited government guaranteed borrowing. The comparisons to the housing bubble arent off.

 

 

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If the government adopts a policy of paying off all college debt, I would think it would lead to a change of habits.  For example, people won't save for college and won't work their way through college.  It may also lead to a drying up of private dollars for scholarships as private donors no longer believe it is helping anyone to provide tuition assistance.

Does this type of behavior exist in countries where the government does heavily subsidize education costs? I am not sure that it does.

 

To Greg's point I agree: this is essentially created by the government guaranteeing something they have no business guaranteeing. We can debate about solutions but, again, the reasoning behind the "boomer trolly problem" doesn't seem valid to me.

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80-90% of the university payroll is useless. Administrators paying themselves more and more every year.

 

These are monopolies just like hospitals. Having the taxpayers pay them just means the bill increases by leaps and bounds every year.

 

I think we should just shut down the majors that don't have commercial applications.

 

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Here in Canada it costs about CAN $22-$24,000 per year to do a year of university (for a full time student). This is all in (includes tuition, books, rent, food, entertainment/beer, cell, transit etc). If you live at home cost for tuition and books is about $8,000 per year. If you go to a local college (most areas have a local college close to their home) the cost drops to about $7,000 per year (tuition and books). Bottom line, post secondary education here in Canada is more accessible than it has ever been with lots of great options that are reasonable priced (for what you get).

 

There is a pretty good national student loan program in place where you can receive up to $14,000 per year; the amount you can get is dependent on how much the students earns in the prior year, the parents earnings the prior year and the parents assets (not including real estate, RRSP, RESP). The application process is pretty simple (takes a couple of hours). If you are from a low income home you can receive a $3,000 per year grant which you do not have to pay back. You pay no interest on your student loan until 6 months after you graduate (Federal government may extend this to 2 years).

 

My daughter attends University of BC (Vancouver); on her floor in residence last year was lots of international students, including a few from the US who had one Canadian parent. They chose to do their education in Canada because of the much lower cost and good overall quality.

 

The big problem we have is international students pay much higher tuition fees. So over the years the universities have been taking growing numbers of international students because of the much higher revenue stream. When they started down this road the grade point required was similar. My understanding is that over time, as they take more international and fewer Canadian kids (percentage wise), the grade point requirement for Canadian kids to get into a big University like UBC is now higher than what an international student requires to get in. This would be ok if universities here were private; but they are considered public institutions. If people better understood this issue here in BC we would likely have lots of very angry voters :-)

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Hopefully you're also okay bailing out folks who made poor/risky/dumb investment decisions

Yes I think the first few rounds of QE were absolutely warranted.

 

Oh, I'm not talking about QE. I'm talking about the guy who bets it big on bitcoin (at $20,000) and lost his retirement. Or the one who decides to have a new car every couple years and cashes out his 401k to do it.

 

Just because other folks had terrible retirements (killed on the tracks) doesn't mean these folks should too!

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