Greenland - anyone?

[John Hjorth]

I'm not a regular reader of the Politics forum, so I did a search for the word "Greenland" in the Politics forum, and I came up with this as the only hit, by Cigarbutt, and today from two days ago :

 

...

Our climate is changing. I don’t pretend to know the cause or if it is part of a natural cycle, but I know there has been changes during my lifetime. One of the biggest changes I have noticed notice is that our weather seems to be more extreme.

 

We are also seeing birds and tropical fish never seen in Atlantic Canada before.

ick Reply

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/warming-waters-bringing-tropical-fish-022929570.html

This thread is drifting away from the Russia investigation. Let's try to get closer to Russia, geographically, by focusing on potential effects of climate change on Greenland which, at some point, may become an interesting area for a golf course development project.

 

-Now, that comment from Cigarbutt saved my miserable & rainy Monday!  [ : - D ]

[Jurgis]

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/denmark-offers-to-buy-us

 

The deal is on!

[cwericb]

just in case you don't want to click on the link, this is too good to pass up:

 

"COPENHAGEN (The Borowitz Report)—After rebuffing Donald J. Trump’s hypothetical proposal to purchase Greenland, the government of Denmark has announced that it would be interested in buying the United States instead.

 

“As we have stated, Greenland is not for sale,” a spokesperson for the Danish government said on Friday. “We have noted, however, that during the Trump regime pretty much everything in the United States, including its government, has most definitely been for sale.”

 

“Denmark would be interested in purchasing the United States in its entirety, with the exception of its government,” the spokesperson added.

 

A key provision of the purchase offer, the spokesperson said, would be the relocation of Donald Trump to another country “to be determined,” with Russia and North Korea cited as possible destinations.

 

If Denmark’s bid for the United States is accepted, the Scandinavian nation has ambitious plans for its new acquisition. “We believe that, by giving the U.S. an educational system and national health care, it could be transformed from a vast land mass into a great nation,” the spokesperson said. "

[John Hjorth]

On a serious note here, it's just so sad to observe how much damage bad form, lack of compliance to formal routes of diplomatic communication with allies, and afterwards rude ignorance of local hospitality actually can produce.

 

It does not exactly gets better of the Danish press picking it up & swallowing in it - after which, the Danish politicians starts ticket selling by concurring publicly, perhaps even trying to give it an extra turn.

 

After which likely few Danes basically may have forgotten what this in reality about. [To me, perhaps a new "old fashion" arms race, or, in worst case, even the worse - which neither the US nor Denmark are in any way really interested in]. The real issue is somewhere else - that fact has somehow "drowned" - because of bad form and the handling of the case by the Danish press and Danish politicians.

 

Naturally something could be worked out in cooperation based on mutual understanding, because the basic interests of the US and Denmark are aligned with regard to foreign policy, specifically related to what this in reality is about. [*SIGH*]

[Spekulatius]

US and Denmark are aligned with regard to foreign policy, specifically related to what this in reality is about.

 

So what is this about? Does Trump expect to be taken seriously in this matter?

[Parsad]

I'm not a regular reader of the Politics forum, so I did a search for the word "Greenland" in the Politics forum, and I came up with this as the only hit, by Cigarbutt, and today from two days ago :

 

...

Our climate is changing. I don’t pretend to know the cause or if it is part of a natural cycle, but I know there has been changes during my lifetime. One of the biggest changes I have noticed notice is that our weather seems to be more extreme.

 

We are also seeing birds and tropical fish never seen in Atlantic Canada before.

ick Reply

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/warming-waters-bringing-tropical-fish-022929570.html

This thread is drifting away from the Russia investigation. Let's try to get closer to Russia, geographically, by focusing on potential effects of climate change on Greenland which, at some point, may become an interesting area for a golf course development project.

 

-Now, that comment from Cigarbutt saved my miserable & rainy Monday!  [ : - D ]

 

I don't know.  An 80-storey steel and black glass Trump tower in Greenland might look nice!  At least it would be a step up from the tents and portables miners use presently.  And Trump could put all of the illegal immigrants and Rosie O'Donnell there. 

 

Seriously though, the approach was all wrong, but the idea actually might have some merit.  If you assume that the glaciers and snow pack is going to decrease in the Artic due to global warming, and you may have passages that ships/submarines, etc may start using regularly, it may make sense to bolster the base on Greenland to guard the Northern Hemisphere above North America.

 

I think Trump or the U.S. could have achieved that through improved diplomacy rather than a Twitter offer to buy Greenland, and it would have cost a whole lot less, but the idea has some merit.  Cheers!

[SHDL]

Lol, this guy: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1163603361423351808?s=20

[John Hjorth]

US and Denmark are aligned with regard to foreign policy, specifically related to what this in reality is about.

So what is this about? Does Trump expect to be taken seriously in this matter?

 

Spekulatius,

 

Denmark has been cooperating with USA now for 60 years about defense. It's about :

 

Thule Site J &

Thule Air Base.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

Thule Air Base has its own Danish ZIP-code : DK-3970 Pituffik. It's like a separate Greenlandic city. Danes from the "southern part" of Denmark [that tiny thingy attached to Germany to the north] are subject to a special tax treaty between USA and Denmark [now a tax rate of 37%, earlier it was as low as 21%]. So when things very really bad here in Denmark in the '80s quite some Danes went there for work. Personally I know quite a few who did that. Over that time span of 60 years, that base has caused billions of DKK to get injected into the economy of Greenland from USAF. For the people of Greenland, TAB [called so in daily speaking] is like what California or NYC is to the rust belt.

 

It's not only the POTUS who is delusional here, ref. SHDL's last post here. Also the Danish politicians and the Danish Press are. The fact is that by law the people of Greenland are protected and secured their indepence and right to decide for themselves. [A bit like the Northern Ireland issue related to Brexit.]

 

I would argue it's also about potential undiscovered oil and gas reserves in the un-explored waters north of Greenland. Nobody will sell such a lottery ticket. Please if interested, take a look at reserve development & replacement for Rosneft related to the Kara Sea. It will never happen again, what happened between the Danish State and A.P. Møller with regard oil and gas in Danish territory. Danes are looking with envy in the direction of Oslo in that regard.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

I'll wrap it up here - I could go on and on.

[meiroy]

"Denmark is a very special country with incredible people, but based on Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen’s comments, that she would have no interest in discussing the purchase of Greenland, I will be postponing our meeting scheduled in two weeks for another time...."

 

Now, guess, is this real or not?

[Gregmal]

I thought this was a joke. Funny, but pretty ridiculous.

[Cardboard]

It is as good of an excuse as any other.

 

She is a hard core socialist so not listening to her is a big win. Pure waste of time. Let them sink and decay in Europe with their endless attempts at socialism. No wonder that Obama was such an admirer of such failing society.

 

Cardboard

[John Hjorth]

"Denmark is a very special country with incredible people, but based on Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen’s comments, that she would have no interest in discussing the purchase of Greenland, I will be postponing our meeting scheduled in two weeks for another time...."

 

Now, guess, is this real or not?

I thought this was a joke. Funny, but pretty ridiculous.

It is as good of an excuse as any other. ...

 

As a Dane, I will just say, that at least the statement from Mr. Trump is sincere about the meeting cancellation, so this provides clarity.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

To try to find some inner logic in what in reality has been going on, and what this in reality is about, I personally speculate that one has to look in this direction.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

It was still an dumb move, as I have stated before. We know that Mr. Trump isn't really reading anything, so somebody in his administration screwed up dearly here with homework and preparation.

 

To get an idea of how preposterous this is perceived here, you have to invert it : Try this : Mr. Trump announces in a tweet with Mr. Xi tagged, that Alaska is up for sale and he wants to discuss in a meeting [not mentioning why] ... no, that's not enough ... let's throw in Wyoming too ... and Hawaii!

[John Hjorth]

Mr. Trump didn't achieve what he set out to do, because he approached the task the wrong way. It's unknown what his real intentions were here. That does not change the fact of what was tried and the failure of it. That's why it to me was dumb. Perhaps I should have written "clumsy" instead. If insulting an ally who has actively been cooperating with USA for 60 years about defence to you is good PR, so be it, and it may even be correct relative to you. Relative to me, and I dare also say here, it just isn't.

[cwericb]

Even Trump could not be stupid enough to believe that such a hairbrain proposal would fly.

 

One would have to think that he is just playing with the gullible public to deflect attention away from his latest poll numbers and stock market problems.

 

Trump doesn't care about who he insults, just so long as the end justifies the means.

[John Hjorth]

... One would have to think that he is just playing with the gullible public to deflect attention away from his latest poll numbers and stock market problems. ...

 

That reads likely, cwericb,

 

Press conference with Mette Frederiksen set at 15:00 [local time] today. It's imperative that she stays cool headed and ties a knot on this situation without insulting USA or the POTUS in any way, by expressing herself in a respectful way, based on the legal facts. So far, she has done so when asked about the whole thing.

 

Now the funny part about what really triggered me to start this topic, based on Cigarbutt's post in another topic : DR [August 8^th 2019] : DMI rejects heat record on Greenland.

[Cardboard]

I am really happy that we finally have a rude guy that insults some of these guys. It is well deserved obviously.

 

"If insulting an ally who has actively been cooperating with USA for 60 years about defence to you is good PR, so be it, and it may even be correct relative to you."

 

1- Sent our young soldiers to die to liberate them from Nazis.

2- Organized Marshall Plan to save them from starvation and get a better life.

3- Stationed troops there for decades to save them from Soviet invasion.

4- Continue to protect them.

 

Isn't normal that they are "cooperating"?

 

On the other hand, they do not even pay their fair share to NATO.

 

So yeah, seems to me like Trump is just giving a good slap in the face to ungrateful people taking everything for granted.

 

Cardboard

[Cigarbutt]

^The geopolitical role of Greenland has been quite interesting over time; security alternating with access to resources playing dominating roles.

I would assume that an update (which probably required hours of preparation and references to previous evidence-based works) was presented and, after fifteen seconds and a cursory glance at a one-page document: "Let's buy it!".

 

Buying Greenland has been on the agenda, intermittently. When Denmark received unsolicited visit in the early 1940's, cryolite access was a big issue for Canada (aluminium industry) and Greenland had a strategic mine in Ivittuut. The US became reluctantly involved and the eventual compromise was a temporary military presence on Greenland soil. I would say that security reasons have recently taken a back seat and access to Rare Earth Minerals has become a key variable in the newer kind of war, the trade kind. An interesting corollary though is that believing in access to Greenland's resources means, from a rational point of view, believing in climate change, and its associated consequences, both positive and negative.

 

Man kan godt sige, at det er en god nyhed i et klimaperspektiv. :)

 

I don't think you should take this personal as Canada and Denmark, after all, constitute only strategic pieces of real estate on the global agenda.

[Vish_ram]

What kind of a world we live in? Things surely have changed.

 

Even a few decades ago, a powerful country can annex less powerful ones.

 

Here we've a world superpower, the only game in the town trying to pay top $ to buy an abandoned outpost with few residents. we are rebuffed & insulted!!!

 

There is no respect for military might.

[LC]

There is no respect for military might.

As the saying goes, the pen is mightier than the sword.

[Castanza]

What kind of a world we live in? Things surely have changed.

 

Even a few decades ago, a powerful country can annex less powerful ones.

 

Here we've a world superpower, the only game in the town trying to pay top $ to buy an abandoned outpost with few residents. we are rebuffed & insulted!!!

 

There is no respect for military might.

 

There is no respect for Trump

[John Hjorth]

Thank you for all the replies here, gents,

 

Personally, I'm following this high intensity event online - pretty much all updated one place close to real time here. [unfortunately in Danish.]

 

Here, I'm not going to respond on anything till I see the end / conclusion of it. This thingy [calamity?] is far from over yet - as of right now.

[LC]

There is no respect for Trump

No respect? Have you seen Cardboard's posts on this forum?  ;D

 

On the other hand, i would estimate more than half the country thinks he's a detestable individual ("grab em by the p***y!").

And frankly they're probably correct. So that might have something to do with that group's lack of respect for Trump.

[John Hjorth]

Heck, I just changed my mind.

 

Jens Otto Krag : You have a point of view until you take a new one.

 

I mean certain issues / things can be discussed [more or less in general] out of this specific & actual context related to this topic, no matter the actual final outcome [when we observe that].

 

In reverse order [who has said anything here on CoBF about that you have [out of CoBF "code of conduct", netiquette etc.] to reply to posts based on a FIFO principle?]:

 

Vish_ram,

 

Get used to it. It's all about trust, rule of law and respect for capital, basically.

 

Those were the days, when warriors of fortune met over a beer after the last battle, and the conversation started with :

 

Question : "How old are you?"

Answer : "38."

Question : "If I remember correctly, you answered my question with exactly the same answer about three years ago when we met in XXX?"

Answer : "A man is only a man, if his word is his word."

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

To take it a bit more lightly : Ally triangulation :

 

1. You don't have to love an ally,

2. You don't need to kiss an ally,

3. You don't need to hug an ally,

4. You don't need to share bed, table & newspaper with an ally,

5. You don't need to agree on all matters with an ally,

6. Allies are always chosen opportunistically, based on common ground, despite of mutual & other discrepancies,

7. It's all about finding the suitable balance, to make both parties the predator, each in their own way, to create the needed balance/equilibrium in the ally relationship,

8. In short, allies is a concept based on practical reason, in most cases not based on deeper considerations about the ally.

 

[cubsfan]

There is no respect for Trump

No respect? Have you seen Cardboard's posts on this forum?  ;D

 

On the other hand, i would estimate more than half the country thinks he's a detestable individual ("grab em by the p***y!").

And frankly they're probably correct. So that might have something to do with that group's lack of respect for Trump.

 

Most American's could give a shit about Trump's Access Hollywood comments, just like they don't give a rats ass about Stormy Daniels and what Trump

did in his personal life.  We know we didn't elect a saint - we elected someone to clean up Washington and get shit done. In that regard,

so far - so good.

 

Look at the alternative: Criminal Hillary Clinton and sex-abuser Bill Clinton. At least Bill Clinton was a very good President, in spite of his

harassment of women and Hillary's multiple attempts to smear them as trailer trash. All in honor of the "me too" movement and political power.

 

And now Big Bill looks like he partied his ass off with young girls while wearing Monica's dress, when he was with Jeffrey Epstien.

Doesn't look too good for Clinton with his 27 trips on Epstien's private jet.

 

Politics is full of sleaze balls and less than stellar reputations. The Clintons were the bottom of the barrel right along with Al Sharpton.

 

In the end, American's want someone to get good things done in Washington - like call out "The Squad" for their virulent anti-semitism...

 

[Spekulatius]

This Greenland thing was just a dump idea, approached in an incompetent manner. Nothing to see here, We will move on to the next idiocy.