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Put It To Bed!


Gregmal
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Guest Schwab711

I think it's pretty obvious that D's plan to start impeachment sometime in the first part of 2020. This story is going to continue for another 1.5+ years. Mueller summed up the situation in his written opening statement:

 

And let me say one more thing. Over the course of my career, I’ve seen a number of challenges to our democracy. The Russian government’s effort to interfere in our election is among the most serious. As I said on May 29, this deserves the attention of every American.

 

You have been misled about the investigation and I no longer care to try to correct you. You can disagree all you want but it's important to remember you (and I) are not decision makers and we can not affect them. Regardless of how much Hannity yells and screams (or Representatives do it on his behalf), this scandal is quite real and will continue through the 2020 election (and beyond).

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So are so funny Schwab, you just never give up. Today was a disaster for the Democrats and Robert Mueller looked like a fool.

 

Your case of TDS is very, very severe....

 

Before Trump is impeached in 2020, you will see your heroes in the Obama/Clinton Crime syndicate pay the price for starting all this nonsense

and trying to remove the democratically elected US President. 

 

Talk about a scandal ....wait until Horowitz and Barr are done indicting this bunch!

 

 

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How in the world do they move to impeach after this? Heading in they had 88 for it. They needed this to be something electric. And it was a total, and complete dud.

 

Even thinking about impeachment after todays embarrassment will just add the the landslide that will occur in 2020. In the real world, I've been noticing(yes, small sample size) that I cant help but keep running into people, textbook liberals, who are starting to see, and agree with what the Trump presidency is yielding. Colored folks, bartenders, landscapers, construction workers(Spanish laborers, not the jerk offs who own the companies and only leave their desks to drive their obnoxious F250's 15 mph over the speed limit just to give an estimate)... they all cant help but notice what's happening under Trump.

 

Lefties can only pray for Biden; he is the only real shot. If any of LC's heroes get the nomination, Trump could get all 50 states. Hardworking Americans are not stupid. They see that things are good. No way they even think about some idiot like Koobala Harris or Bernie Sanders.

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Guest Schwab711

D's won by 9.2% in 2018. 6 R senators who voted for Clinton removal in 1999 are up for election in 2020. The strategy is to make them look like hypocrites. It's good political strategy. D's are try to take Congress and POTUS. That's why Trump is baiting them to impeach now. Let's revisit this in a year.

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I agree it's time to put this to bed.  If they cannot prosecute or indict him as a sitting President, and we can't get a clear answer from Mueller on his findings because he doesn't want to breach any code of ethics, then move on in my opinion!  You know the President's toady AG is not going to get involved and without any clear objective answer, the Dem's will always be discounted if they try and do anything right now.  Focus on 2020 and then when he is out of office, you can always revisit any criminal activity he was part of.  Most of the other main culprits have been put away, and there were a shitload of them!  Cheers!

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They could still possibly prosecute on obstruction charges. Almost the entire hearing focused on this key word. Although Trump was within his rights to try and get Muller fired, it doesn't help his image. I still believe our president needs to be held to a higher standard. But congress, the FBI, and everyone else involved in this should be ashamed of how this entire thing has been carried out.

 

As far as the Russian scandal it's basically a joke. Congressman Jordan hit the nail on the head when talking about the original source and it's lack of credibility. Also the Russian Facebook ad thing is a complete joke as well. 1.) a Federal judge said they need to stop calling Cambridge Analytica a Russian ad influencer and 2.) Even if they were, their campaign budget total pre and during the election was like 150k.....one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.....Everyone on here knows advertising is way more than that to be effective. I believe between the two campaigns (Trump and Hillary) they spent about 2 billion total.

 

Side note: Completely unrelated but the new UK prime minister is literally the British version of Trump. Spitting image....even has the young wife/gf to boot! It's gonna be another fun term of politics.

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Guest Schwab711

As far as the Russian scandal it's basically a joke. Congressman Jordan hit the nail on the head when talking about the original source and it's lack of credibility. Also the Russian Facebook ad thing is a complete joke as well. 1.) a Federal judge said they need to stop calling Cambridge Analytica a Russian ad influencer and 2.) Even if they were, their campaign budget total pre and during the election was like 150k.....one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.....Everyone on here knows advertising is way more than that to be effective. I believe between the two campaigns (Trump and Hillary) they spent about 2 billion total.

 

It's stupid to reply but the original source is Downer, who was an ambassador of one of our closest allies.

 

When GP pled guilty, he swore under oath that he lied to the government in such a way that caused the government to not be able to detain Mifsud when he was in the US in 2017. Mifsud has since not made himself available to the US government for questioning (he did one or more interviews before the US government was ready to detain him).

 

Jordan said some things that are demonstrably incorrect and some that cannot be proven either way (until the IG report is completed). Despite AG Barr asking Mueller not to talk about any topic outside the report, many R's choose to ask about these topics, knowing full well Mueller could not respond or correct their rants. It was an abuse of the platform.

 

You are confusing Cambridge Analytica with IRA (a Russian company owned by an individual purportedly connected to high-ranking Russian government officials). The IRA had dozens of employees working a cumulative 10's of thousands of hours to create followings that spread their message, which didn't require a budget. Trump doesn't pay to advertise his tweets to 10's of millions of followers. The lack of money doesn't mean it's ineffective. The IRA had one account that had 250k+ followers and was retweeted by Trump during the campaign. That's where the concerns came from. While the FBI was warning the Trump campaign about the possible Russian interference, the Trump campaign lied about their communications with the Russian government, lied about what they knew the Russian government was doing, encouraged or aided the interference, and then covered it up. That's the problem. That's the point of the investigation. The Russians wanted to create a divide and Trump stoked that divide but getting followers to turn away from any type of criticism of him. Even now, Cubsfan is going to be so triggered by this message that he'll repeat "Brother Schwab has TDS" or something akin to that. You are misinformed about the investigation and the associated issues, Castanza.

 

 

I think a lot of folks won't believe what R's or D's say on this topic because it's so strongly an "us versus them" mentality right now. Some people in this thread root against the country so they can see people in the "them" bucket fail. That's the problem in the country right now. Same as it was in 2015.

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So I take it you think that the Democrats advanced their impeachment efforts yesterday Brother Schwab?

 

What the hell - they control the House of Representatives.

 

It's been 3 years now - so it must be a very clear cut --- Trump Colluded with Russia, Trump Obstructed Justice.

 

Trump stole the election with Russian help.

 

Trump is a traitor.

 

Trump is a Russian agent.

 

Exactly where are we now Mr Legal expert??

 

Spell it out for me AND Castanza, since we are not as brilliant as you.

 

 

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Nice summary by Democrat Dershowitz of Mueller hearing disaster on key legal issues:

 

Key Line of Mueller Report:

“Accordingly while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

 

Commentary from article:

 

"Mueller’s attempt to introduce it is an extraordinary and dangerous innovation that would endanger the presumption of innocence we all have under the law."

 

"There is a grave and frightening danger in introducing the concept of exoneration into our legal system. It suggests that a person may still be presumed guilty even if the decision was made not to prosecute him or her, or even if a jury rendered a verdict of not guilty."

 

"By introducing the concept of “not exonerated” the special counsel exceeded his own powers and even those of the Justice Department."

 

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/alan-dershowitz-mueller-wrongly-introduces-dangerous-concept-of-exoneration-in-review-of-trump-actions

 

 

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Guest Schwab711

So I take it you think that the Democrats advanced their impeachment efforts yesterday Brother Schwab?

 

What the hell - they control the House of Representatives.

For 6 months

 

It's been 3 years now - so it must be a very clear cut --- Trump Colluded with Russia, Trump Obstructed Justice.

That's basically what the report says. There's not enough admissible evidence to charge anyone with conspiracy and Trump can't be charged for obstruction. That's not my opinion, that's what the report says.

 

Trump stole the election with Russian help.

This is an opinion and it's pointless for us to discuss it

 

Trump is a traitor.

Opinion and pointless to discuss. He clearly is ;)

 

Trump is a Russian agent.

Opinion and pointless to discuss

 

Exactly where are we now Mr Legal expert??

Let me learns you

 

Spell it out for me AND Castanza, since we are not as brilliant as you.

Hopefully this post helps you glean my brilliance

 

 

I'll answer why I say I think impeachment in early-2020 is strategically sound enough that it's highly likely to occur. Everything you write is basically what I've complained about. I say one thing and you take it to extreme and imply that to be the only possible meaning of what I said. This is like your Democrat Derangement Syndrome, where you hated Obama but love Trump for continuing policies started by Obama. Your opinion seems to be based on the team, not the idea. It's difficult to discuss topics with you as a result.

 

As to impeachment, this isn't a unique opinion. From what I've read, there are substantial differences between Independent Counsels (Starr) and Special Counsels (Mueller) such that Starr was allowed to expand his investigation to non-tangent topics as they arose. That's why the law changed to Special Counsels we have now (post-2000?). It's funny witch hunt is raised with Trump with that in mind, but all of politics is "funny".

 

Anyways, the Mueller investigation found real impeachable acts in obstruction, abuse of power, and so on. Since conspiracy with Russia was so highly built, it's going to be difficult to sway many ardent Trump supporters on obstruction. Another issue is the recent trend to have any would-be scandals become forgotten within days or weeks in the Trump-era. If the House impeached Trump now, the Senate would hold a quick trial, vote not to removal, and all of the issues would be forgotten. This would likely hurt Democrat turnout in 2020. The main reason I think "impeachment inquiry" is being done without a full-blown impeachment process is due to the public's ignorance of any difference. This allows Democrats to keep the topic relevant until election season is here. I think Democrats want to start the impeachment process during the Presidential (and more importantly, Congressional) campaigns to rally support for the election. The impeachment process takes 1-6 months. Much like 2016 featured "October Surprises" because near-election information drops are more impactful, I suspect the impeachment hearings would be best done near elections. Further, there are 6 or 7 Republican Senators in heavily-red states up for election in 2020 (including McConnell) that voted for Clinton's removal in 1998. I think the strategy is to impeach Trump and have the impeachment trial occur prior to the election to rally Democrat voters and show that Republicans in hard-to-win states are "hypocrites". If everything worked out in their favor, Democrats may be able to take both houses along with the Presidency.

 

That is the strategy that I can see. Things like approving a debt ceiling through the remainder of Trump's presidency are acts that avoid potentially legitimate diversions of attention come the election. Whether it's a good strategy or whether it will work or not are certainly debatable, but I think this is the strategy.

 

That's it. It's an opinion about election strategy, not whether or not I think Trump should be impeached, though my opinion probably isn't shocking. You keep thinking that I hold myself out to be some expert because I correct you clearly inaccurate posts. It's not my fault you look for confirming sources without regard for accuracy. All I'm saying in this thread about impeachment is purely opinion based on what has happened historically around election times.

 

The counter to this strategy is that McConnell may be able to block a Senate trial of impeachment until post-election. That would make the strategy I projected impotent. In that case, maybe Pelosi isn't being coy when she says no impeachment.

https://balkin.blogspot.com/2019/07/how-sen-mcconnell-would-justify-not.html

 

It always surprised me how emotional you get about Trump. I'll try to do a better job of being clear about what I mean when talking to you.

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Thanks for your response Schwab. I think you have your work cut out for you - certainly the Democrats do, as nothing is going their way.

 

Something of validity you said was:

 

The main reason I think "impeachment inquiry" is being done without a full-blown impeachment process is due to the public's ignorance of any difference. This allows Democrats to keep the topic relevant until election season is here.

 

Shockingly - I am not quite there with you. But you are on the right track. The main reason the "impeachment inquiry" is being done is because

the Democrats have NO platform that does not look bonkers - and Americans know their policies are absolutely nuts.  It will be far easier

for the Democrats to take power if they can continue to SMEAR Trump anyway they can up until the election. The absolute best platform item the

Democrats have is Trump is a racist, bigot, traitor, Putin lackey, etc - and shame the public into vote for their virtuous candidates.

 

The added bonus will be to keep the heat off Comey, McCabe, Brennan, etc, etc. in addition to winning the election.

 

Problem is - it doesn't look like it's working.

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