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Now we see what has been going on behind the scenes:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/08/china-backtracked-on-nearly-all-aspects-of-us-trade-deal-sources.html

 

Negotiating with Chinese is very difficult and under a communist regime even more so.

 

I hope that Mr. Trump remains steadfast in domesticating these bastards. It was an incredible historical error not to annihilate them when they crossed the Yalu River in 1950.

 

Thousands of Americans have died fighting the Japanese which effectively liberated China from their occupation only to be stabbed in the back a few years later.

 

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To be clear, I am talking about the communist regime.

 

It was MacArthur's recommendation by the way.

 

Regarding what is grossly offensive it is to support in any way this murderous regime which starved its own people with millions dying, helped to create another monstrous regime or North Korea, continuing its expansionist ambitions or South China Sea, East China Sea, threatening to invade Taiwan, controlling media and internet, stealing industrial and military secret and on and on.

 

Even assaulting U.S. citizens and their children:

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/is-an-invisible-weapon-targeting-u-s-diplomats-60-minutes/

 

If you think that these people would hesitate for a second to reduce us to ashes if they were to find a new, absolute weapon you are clearly mistaken.

 

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Funny you say this about China.

 

a) Right here in US we've millions dying with gun violence, opioid crisis, lack of affordable healthcare etc.

b) Arming one murderous regime after other in Arab states, creating destabilization for last 50+ years

c) Not just threatening,  We invaded North Korea (at the request of South Korea), 2–4) we invaded Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos 4–5) we invaded Iraq twice, 6) Afghanistan, 7) in 1983 we invaded Granada, 8) we invaded Cuba quite unsuccessfully. And then there all the African countries that we ‘semi-invaded’ — under the guise of training and equipping (w/ lots of US boots on the ground): Algeria, Burkina Faso, Chad, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal and Tunisia – not to mention operations in Libya, Somalia, Uganda, Kenya, Djibouti — that’s, let’s see: a total of 23

 

d) first country to drop an atomic weapon on civilians.

 

I'm not justifying China's actions by any means. Being Indian born, i know China attacked India and still occupying Tibet. This is the corrupting influence of power. Power continues to expand until check mated.

 

 

 

To be clear, I am talking about the communist regime.

 

It was MacArthur's recommendation by the way.

 

Regarding what is grossly offensive it is to support in any way this murderous regime which starved its own people with millions dying, helped to create another monstrous regime or North Korea, continuing its expansionist ambitions or South China Sea, East China Sea, threatening to invade Taiwan, controlling media and internet, stealing industrial and military secret and on and on.

 

Even assaulting U.S. citizens and their children:

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/is-an-invisible-weapon-targeting-u-s-diplomats-60-minutes/

 

If you think that these people would hesitate for a second to reduce us to ashes if they were to find a new, absolute weapon you are clearly mistaken.

 

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To each side, their own narratives.

 

In America and many western places we like to feel superior and take the moral high ground. Countries like China and Russia are immensely more patriotic and play to win, many times at all costs. It's why we as a country need to get smacked in the mouth really hard and in devastating fashion, like 9/11 or Pearl Harbor, to get off our asses. Our "strategy" is to basically let others take advantage of us before we do anything. Whereas these other countries are constantly planning and scheming to be the best. You could say they operate or negotiate in bad faith, but truthfully what they are doing is operating to be the best and to take, and get away with as much as they can.

 

Also, as Vish ram mentioned, we do shit too but are just sneaky about it and then lie or deny it when getting caught.

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If you think that these people would hesitate for a second to reduce us to ashes if they were to find a new, absolute weapon you are clearly mistaken.

 

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Yeah, they actually are not interested in anything of that nature.  Gain economic and military superiority...yes.  Wipe out the U.S....no.  That's your thinking, and the thinking of many who need to sit down and tell a psychiatrist what certain ink-blot stains look like to them.  There is something much deeper here in your heart! 

 

I've been to China, have many, many Chinese friends both here and around the world.  They are normal people like you and me, with the same ambitions, desires, and undying love for their family.  Are there issues with the Communist government, their tactics and suppression of free speech...yes...but we are seeing that happen in the U.S. as well. 

 

It might be surprising to some that the rest of the world is really not much different than here, outside of the handful of cabals, dictators and corrupt monarchs that rule in certain regions.  People by their very nature aren't very different.  Cheers!

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If you think that these people would hesitate for a second to reduce us to ashes if they were to find a new, absolute weapon you are clearly mistaken.

 

Cardboard

 

 

 

Yeah, they actually are not interested in anything of that nature.  Gain economic and military superiority...yes.  Wipe out the U.S....no.  That's your thinking, and the thinking of many who need to sit down and tell a psychiatrist what certain ink-blot stains look like to them.  There is something much deeper stirring in those hearts...not unlike those that perpetrated 9/11, et al...an underlying fear and hatred for others! 

 

I've been to China, have many, many Chinese friends both here and around the world.  They are normal people like you and me, with the same ambitions, desires, and undying love for their family.  Are there issues with the Communist government, their tactics and suppression of free speech...yes...but we are seeing that happen in the U.S. as well.  Everyone I met in China was welcoming, friendly and simply going about their day to day business of work, home, school, shopping, eating, living and dying.

 

It might be surprising to some that the rest of the world is really not much different than here, outside of the handful of cabals, dictators and corrupt monarchs that rule in certain regions.  People by their very nature aren't very different.  Cheers!

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In economic terms, what the Chinese people have achieved over the last 30 years is unprecedented and extraordinary.

But China's access to the WTO in 2001 was based on the premise that, eventually, the regime would promote economic AND political liberalism.

 

China is moving away from democratic rule.

The US continues to be work in progress and it is still largely a free market democracy.

 

Rule-bending and rule-breaking is the name of the global hegemony game but I prefer democratic regimes.

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I don't want to sound like a china apologist, but consider these:

 

1) China is not a homogeneous nation, there are 100's of local tribes, regions that have different culture, customs, language etc. If China had gone the democracy route, it would have been chaotic with tons of regional disputes. China has kept a good lid on extremist Muslim folks there. Overall the quality of life in that region has dramatically improved. What was once an impoverished nation, is now the 2nd largest economy in the world. They have lifted a billion people out of poverty to a thriving country.

 

This was all done without much bloodshed (yes there were deaths due to starvation, negligible )

 

2)  China has been the manufacturing hub for the entire world. This has allowed people in West to buy cheap crap. There are more storage units in US than sum total of all fast food restaurants. If you are a materialist, you can make an argument that people enjoy more stuff without jump in inflation. Look at inflation chart for last 60 years and the downward trajectory will coincide with rise of China.

 

3) If the walk the streets of Beijing, you'll be shocked by the air pollution. The Chinese have taken the brunt of this and have given better quality air/water in most of the western world. Imagine having industries running in US with labor unions, polluting the crap out of air and water !!!

 

4) 90% of Chinese interactions with Africa & other countries haven been to propagate their economic interest. They have given credit/money/expertise to build dams, roads etc. They are working to help build countries.

 

 

I guess to some folks in US, if you don't follow the route of invade/destroy lives& property/leave with ruin/cause PTSD for soldiers, then you are evil.

 

 

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In economic terms, what the Chinese people have achieved over the last 30 years is unprecedented and extraordinary.

But China's access to the WTO in 2001 was based on the premise that, eventually, the regime would promote economic AND political liberalism.

 

China is moving away from democratic rule.

The US continues to be work in progress and it is still largely a free market democracy.

 

Rule-bending and rule-breaking is the name of the global hegemony game but I prefer democratic regimes.

 

No doubt and I fully agree!  But the Chinese people aren't the Chinese government...just like all Americans aren't Donald Trump.  Cheers!

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In economic terms, what the Chinese people have achieved over the last 30 years is unprecedented and extraordinary.

But China's access to the WTO in 2001 was based on the premise that, eventually, the regime would promote economic AND political liberalism.

 

China is moving away from democratic rule.

The US continues to be work in progress and it is still largely a free market democracy.

 

Rule-bending and rule-breaking is the name of the global hegemony game but I prefer democratic regimes.

 

No doubt and I fully agree!  But the Chinese people aren't the Chinese government...just like all Americans aren't Donald Trump.  Cheers!

Whatever regime, there is always an element of complicity between leaders and constituents but the link can be tenuous indeed!

 

At least on this side of the authoritarian curtain (and thanks to you for the platform that you provide), we are allowed (pretty much freely) to discuss tough issues (investing or otherwise) and, for instance, would be allowed to compare our Leader to Winnie-the-Pooh (something which is censored in China).

http://danbyink.bangordailynews.com/2018/03/05/president-for-life/

 

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In economic terms, what the Chinese people have achieved over the last 30 years is unprecedented and extraordinary.

But China's access to the WTO in 2001 was based on the premise that, eventually, the regime would promote economic AND political liberalism.

 

China is moving away from democratic rule.

The US continues to be work in progress and it is still largely a free market democracy.

 

Rule-bending and rule-breaking is the name of the global hegemony game but I prefer democratic regimes.

 

No doubt and I fully agree!  But the Chinese people aren't the Chinese government...just like all Americans aren't Donald Trump.  Cheers!

Whatever regime, there is always an element of complicity between leaders and constituents but the link can be tenuous indeed!

 

At least on this side of the authoritarian curtain (and thanks to you for the platform that you provide), we are allowed (pretty much freely) to discuss tough issues (investing or otherwise) and, for instance, would be allowed to compare our Leader to Winnie-the-Pooh (something which is censored in China).

http://danbyink.bangordailynews.com/2018/03/05/president-for-life/

 

Correct, but that's censorship by the State...not constituents.  And how can they freely be constituents when they have no democratic vote?

 

If Trump could, he would curtail some freedoms that the Constitution guarantees...it's not quite the slippery slope that American's imagine and can happen terribly faster than expected.

 

As long as our government is administered for the good of the people, and is regulated by their will; as long as it secures to us the rights of persons and of property, liberty of conscience and of the press, it will be worth defending. - Andrew Jackson

 

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty. - Thomas Jefferson

 

Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty. - Plato

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Sounds like paranoia.

 

-> Trump is evil and all that because he wants people to file papers before immigrating into the country but, unable to recognize that a regime has been responsible for 15 to 45 million deaths during the Great Chinese Famine. That record rivals Hitler and Stalin by the way.

 

Continues to act daily to hurt freedom (see the news on Hong Kong), steals our patents, secrets, doesn't follow WTO rules, jails our people, supports North Korea, seizes vast part of ocean, threatens Taiwan and all its neighboors, has re-education camps for muslims, oh and Tiananmen Square...

 

This ain't a friendly regime and yes, any comparison with Trump is absurd.

 

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"d) first country to drop an atomic weapon on civilians.

 

I'm not justifying China's actions by any means. Being Indian born, i know China attacked India and still occupying Tibet. This is the corrupting influence of power. Power continues to expand until check mated."

 

While this was undoubtedly traumatic and a bad thing (never good to kill people), casualties were not much different than bombing raids over Dresden.

 

However, the shock stopped the war which was already extending 3 months after Germany's capitulation and there was no sign of a Japanese surrender without conditions. An invasion of Japan main island would have led to millions more death and a full destruction of Japan. This was part of the equation when the decision was made.

 

Also saved China months if not a few years of more agony with Japanese invaders.

 

"c) Not just threatening,  We invaded North Korea (at the request of South Korea), 2–4) we invaded Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos 4–5) we invaded Iraq twice, 6) Afghanistan, 7) in 1983 we invaded Granada, 8) we invaded Cuba quite unsuccessfully. And then there all the African countries that we ‘semi-invaded’ — under the guise of training and equipping (w/ lots of US boots on the ground): Algeria, Burkina Faso, Chad, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal and Tunisia – not to mention operations in Libya, Somalia, Uganda, Kenya, Djibouti — that’s, let’s see: a total of 23"

 

You should check your understanding of history on all of these as there are many errors.

 

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+1 - these topics are covered in 8th grade social studies in the US.

 

BTW, the decision to drop atomic bombs was a trade-off - millions of casualties (American + Japenese), years of prolonged war. Further more, the captured POWs were tortured as Japan didn't have the notion of surrender.

 

"d) first country to drop an atomic weapon on civilians.

 

I'm not justifying China's actions by any means. Being Indian born, i know China attacked India and still occupying Tibet. This is the corrupting influence of power. Power continues to expand until check mated."

 

 

 

However, the shock stopped the war which was already extending 3 months after Germany's capitulation and there was no sign of a Japanese surrender without conditions. An invasion of Japan main island would have led to millions more death and a full destruction of Japan. This was part of the equation when the decision was made.

 

 

You should check your understanding of history on all of these as there are many errors.

 

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"d) first country to drop an atomic weapon on civilians."

 

Every freaking time someone trots out this crap it makes me wonder how people can make uneducated, ill-informed statements like this. Please study some history and educate yourself.

 

Yes those two bombs combined killed 100-150,000 people but it ended the war and probably saved at least two million lives.  But in one fire bombing raid alone on Tokyo (9–10 March 1945) over 100,000 civilians were killed and/or incinerated and you don't hear people even mentioning that.

 

Neither one of the atomic bombs killed as many people as the raid on Tokyo and the use of those two A-bombs at least ended the war and saved millions of lives. So were they used for good or bad? They hit Hiroshima and said 'stop the war or we will keep doing this'. The Japanese could have stopped it then, but ignored the warning. So three days later Nagasaki was hit and it ended the war.

 

It is just too bad people don't educate themselves to the whole story, but it sounds so much more dramatic to blame it on the atomic bomb.

 

End of rant.

 

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"d) first country to drop an atomic weapon on civilians.

 

I'm not justifying China's actions by any means. Being Indian born, i know China attacked India and still occupying Tibet. This is the corrupting influence of power. Power continues to expand until check mated."

 

While this was undoubtedly traumatic and a bad thing (never good to kill people), casualties were not much different than bombing raids over Dresden.

 

However, the shock stopped the war which was already extending 3 months after Germany's capitulation and there was no sign of a Japanese surrender without conditions. An invasion of Japan main island would have led to millions more death and a full destruction of Japan. This was part of the equation when the decision was made.

 

Also saved China months if not a few years of more agony with Japanese invaders.

 

"c) Not just threatening,  We invaded North Korea (at the request of South Korea), 2–4) we invaded Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos 4–5) we invaded Iraq twice, 6) Afghanistan, 7) in 1983 we invaded Granada, 8) we invaded Cuba quite unsuccessfully. And then there all the African countries that we ‘semi-invaded’ — under the guise of training and equipping (w/ lots of US boots on the ground): Algeria, Burkina Faso, Chad, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal and Tunisia – not to mention operations in Libya, Somalia, Uganda, Kenya, Djibouti — that’s, let’s see: a total of 23"

 

You should check your understanding of history on all of these as there are many errors.

 

Cardboard

 

+1 - these topics are covered in 8th grade social studies in the US.

 

BTW, the decision to drop atomic bombs was a trade-off - millions of casualties (American + Japenese), years of prolonged war. Further more, the captured POWs were tortured as Japan didn't have the notion of surrender.

 

"d) first country to drop an atomic weapon on civilians.

 

I'm not justifying China's actions by any means. Being Indian born, i know China attacked India and still occupying Tibet. This is the corrupting influence of power. Power continues to expand until check mated."

 

 

 

However, the shock stopped the war which was already extending 3 months after Germany's capitulation and there was no sign of a Japanese surrender without conditions. An invasion of Japan main island would have led to millions more death and a full destruction of Japan. This was part of the equation when the decision was made.

 

 

You should check your understanding of history on all of these as there are many errors.

 

Cardboard

 

"d) first country to drop an atomic weapon on civilians."

 

Every freaking time someone trots out this crap it makes me wonder how people can make uneducated, ill-informed statements like this. Please study some history and educate yourself.

 

Yes those two bombs combined killed 100-150,000 people but it ended the war and probably saved at least two million lives.  But in one fire bombing raid alone on Tokyo (9–10 March 1945) over 100,000 civilians were killed and/or incinerated and you don't hear people even mentioning that.

 

Neither one of the atomic bombs killed as many people as the raid on Tokyo and the use of those two A-bombs at least ended the war and saved millions of lives. So were they used for good or bad? They hit Hiroshima and said 'stop the war or we will keep doing this'. The Japanese could have stopped it then, but ignored the warning. So three days later Nagasaki was hit and it ended the war.

 

It is just too bad people don't educate themselves to the whole story, but it sounds so much more dramatic to blame it on the atomic bomb.

 

End of rant.

 

 

No one is arguing the rationale and that it saved lives...but it did open up Pandora's box...the Cold War...and today every fool who can get his hands on any sort of radioactive material can make a nuclear bomb, or at the very least, a dirty bomb.  It's like gunpowder or the Gatling gun...it becomes ok to use it.  And so far, in the history of mankind, only the U.S. was mad enough or had the balls to use it...view it whatever way you like!  Cheers! 

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If you think that these people would hesitate for a second to reduce us to ashes if they were to find a new, absolute weapon you are clearly mistaken.

 

Cardboard

 

Yeah, they actually are not interested in anything of that nature.  Gain economic and military superiority...yes.  Wipe out the U.S....no.  That's your thinking, and the thinking of many who need to sit down and tell a psychiatrist what certain ink-blot stains look like to them.  There is something much deeper here in your heart! 

 

I've been to China, have many, many Chinese friends both here and around the world.  They are normal people like you and me, with the same ambitions, desires, and undying love for their family.  Are there issues with the Communist government, their tactics and suppression of free speech...yes...but we are seeing that happen in the U.S. as well. 

 

It might be surprising to some that the rest of the world is really not much different than here, outside of the handful of cabals, dictators and corrupt monarchs that rule in certain regions.  People by their very nature aren't very different.  Cheers!

 

The communist party cannot be trusted.  Taiwan is the Chinese government that the US should have supported.

 

The trade practices of China is just disgusting.  They copy everything, are rude and dishonest most of the time. Isn’t that why you had to let the Chinese manager go? He was probably filling his personal pocket

 

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Sounds like paranoia.

 

-> Trump is evil and all that because he wants people to file papers before immigrating into the country but, unable to recognize that a regime has been responsible for 15 to 45 million deaths during the Great Chinese Famine. That record rivals Hitler and Stalin by the way.

 

Continues to act daily to hurt freedom (see the news on Hong Kong), steals our patents, secrets, doesn't follow WTO rules, jails our people, supports North Korea, seizes vast part of ocean, threatens Taiwan and all its neighboors, has re-education camps for muslims, oh and Tiananmen Square...

 

This ain't a friendly regime and yes, any comparison with Trump is absurd.

 

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Yep,

 

China is executing on a brilliant strategy:

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/05/china-strategy-build-economic-military-technological-superiority/

 

The Russians are not the ones to worry about.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I actually like some National review articles,  it this one is cringeworthy

 

More insidious is the Chinese effort to send hundreds of thousands of students to the West in general, and in particular the United States. Again, in theory it is a brilliant strategy. Like the madcap effort of late-19th and early-20th-century Japan, following the Meiji Restoration, to place a quarter-million students in Britain, France, and Germany to soak up everything from army organization to nautical engineering,

 

The US should do what they have done for a long time. Offer the smartest and brightest  a way to stay here legally. these are exactly the people the US  needs. sure, some will go back to China, but the vast majority will stay.

 

Also, as far as buying stakes in ports and infrastructure, what is the Chinese track record with big foreign investments? it seems that they are losing a lot of money buying skyscrapers in NYC and then selling it back for a fraction of their initial cost. They are just burn8ng cash.Same most likely with investment in Africa. Anyways, capitalism is very good at taking advantage of central planners.

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Sounds like paranoia.

 

-> Trump is evil and all that because he wants people to file papers before immigrating into the country but, unable to recognize that a regime has been responsible for 15 to 45 million deaths during the Great Chinese Famine. That record rivals Hitler and Stalin by the way.

 

Continues to act daily to hurt freedom (see the news on Hong Kong), steals our patents, secrets, doesn't follow WTO rules, jails our people, supports North Korea, seizes vast part of ocean, threatens Taiwan and all its neighboors, has re-education camps for muslims, oh and Tiananmen Square...

 

This ain't a friendly regime and yes, any comparison with Trump is absurd.

 

Cardboard

 

Yep,

 

China is executing on a brilliant strategy:

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/05/china-strategy-build-economic-military-technological-superiority/

 

The Russians are not the ones to worry about.

 

Trump started making his ties and suits there back in 2007.  So he definitely knows who is screwing who, and exactly when China asked him to touch his toes!  Cheers!

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/08/26/how-many-trump-products-were-made-overseas-heres-the-complete-list/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.876ad2aa2f4c

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