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Make Alberta Great Again!


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All across the country, a movement is repudiating that ugly enslaving socialist religion.

 

It started in Ontario, then New Brunswick, then Quebec (still a leftist bunch but, less?) and now dear old Alberta who has suffered deeply.

 

Next on the list is Turdeau removal from office this Fall!

 

First order of the day: cut-off gasoline and kerosene supply to lower B.C., then cut-off equalization payments to Quebec leaches. Time to make them pay for their hypocrisy!

 

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You are responsible. Your actions of starving the West to support your ideology has led to this. 180,000 jobs lost while there is a boom in Texas. Where has been your empathy for these people?

 

They send money to you at the tune of $14 billion/year and all you can tell them is that you don't want their dirty oil to cross your land while you buy it from the boat load from Saudi Arabia and other places with zero human rights?

 

But, it goes further than that as Ontario, New Brunswick and even your Province who do not produce fossil fuels have also turned their back on socialism.

 

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It is great that Alberta will be dropping their taxes. The low taxes in Alberta has been the restraint on idiocy in BC for decades just like the high taxes in Quebec allowed idiocy in Ontario to develop. We are likely stuck with the NDP/Greens until 2021 so more restraint is welcome.

 

And before Alberta shuts off the taps consider. Once the infrastructure is set up to ship US products north it is unlikely to stop. For instance the Squamish or Tsawassen bands might put in a products unloading terminal if you shut off the taps. They could make a fortune with more gas stations on their lands and the gas they get from Esso is not as good as what can be purchased from the more modern refinery in Anacortes. That way you put pressure on the Feds instead of hurting BC consumers. Or assign some of those railcar leases to someone who wants to ship the refined products north on the BNSF line. Imports already have the advantage of avoiding the increased toll equal to about 5 cent a litre. (Perhaps the Premier might call Warren and observe that BRK can ship the products on BNSF to the Flying J stations near or in Vancouver BC and buy out the independents to take market share which might restrain the integrated companies from using the crisis to get greedy. It would be nice and better PR if the Premier was mindful of BC consumers who are innocent and who have already paid for a large portion of the pipeline cost through the existing toll increase. Arco already did the business case for this plan when they built the new refinery in Anacortes to take advantage of the fact that BC has some of the highest retail margins in North America. The plan was ended when BP bought out the entire company. Berkshire please try this plan again and let's see if they can buy out Berkshire!)

 

Alberta could get BC's popular support for the Westcoast Transmission line if Alberta promised to pay the 5 cent a litre tax or so (because of the increased toll on the existing line) we have been paying in BC for years for the cost of this new pipeline for little benefit to us. Why did BC consumers have to pay this regressive tax to pay for the pipeline while others enjoy the financial benefits?

 

Alberta would gain further support if they focused on shipping the bitumin to US refineries. Anacortes used to buy 100,000 barrels a day. No longer. If you ship to refineries the bitumin risk to our waters is diminished as will be the harm from tanker traffic. There is far fewer tanker miles in Georgia Straight for shipments to the Anacortes and Ferndale.

 

And why not ship refined products through BC waters instead of bitumin? Can't we put a refinery somewhere in BC or Alberta or for the eastern pipeline the Great Lakes or St. Lawrence? Adjust tax policies with the various governments and pricing for the bitumin to make the project work and contract construction by international tender without all those silly domestic rules and taxes making the refineries uneconomic. If this is a climate emergency like the Canadian government suggests then why can't they remove the silly taxes and rules preventing common sense development to mitigate a known problem? If Alberta can't make a deal with Quebec make a deal with Ontario. And ask the Russian's for their advanced catalyst technology. They have plenty of heavy oil which they make lighter and process more cheaply thanks to their world leading accomplishments in this area. Maybe if the Canadian government is nicer to them we might get access to their technology.

 

 

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Aberhound,

 

You are a sensible mind. Problem is that we are not dealing with sensible people.

 

Their only desire is to kill off Alberta's energy production to save the world. Or like 3 to 4% of global production will make a fuc..ing difference while the U.S. alone is expanding by 30% of the entire Canadian production each year!

 

Turdeau and all the other commies keep saying "in a changing economy" while no one else gives a sh...t and all they are doing is massively expanding production while the folks over there in Alberta are begging for a few 100,000's of shipping capacity.

 

They are not the ones burning off the oil. It is all these well to do socialists travelling on the week-end with their well fed families or going to Bali for some vacation.

 

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Hi Cardboard,

 

Do you think that any of Alberta's issues are of Alberta's own foolishness?  They siphoned off all of the money they had put away for a rainy day, and blew all of their surpluses when oil was priced high and the economy was booming.  Now it is the West and Ontario's fault for Alberta's issues?  This was a province with zero debt and huge surpluses...what happened to fiscal responsibility?

 

By the way, I'm a proponent of doubling the TC pipeline and increasing refineries...I would much rather use oil here than from abroad or the U.S.  But Alberta's problems are Alberta's making...you preach self-responsibility...what about Alberta's management of their fiscal house?

 

Cheers!

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Alberta has been very badly mismanaged for a very long time.

To get an idea as to just how badly mismanaged; look no further than the Alberta Heritage Trust Fund, created in 1976. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Heritage_Savings_Trust_Fund

 

Alberta has had how many ? YEARS to get pipeline egress built, and has sat on its ass the entire time. And during that entire time Alberta CONTINUALLY expanded Tar Sands production to the point where it has now made ALL oil in Alberta WORTHLESS.  We only have an industry today because a previous government finally imposed curtailment, and bought a rail fleet to move product.

 

Alberta addicted its citizenry to oil, and now ALL Abertan families are suffering withdrawal as the oil work goes away.

If all the province is going to do is 'rant' that it's everyone else's fault; it's going to be a real short conversation until the adults return. Lot of folks are sympathetic, but to a great many people the real solution is a comprehensive National Energy Policy 2.0. We also have o/g in other provinces, and the Maritimes. Alberta is hurting, but it is NOT 'special'.

 

The pipelines WILL get built, but it's not going to be tomorrow, or the day after.

One has to have been truly gifted, to have been this incompetent!

 

SD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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"Do you think that any of Alberta's issues are of Alberta's own foolishness?  They siphoned off all of the money they had put away for a rainy day, and blew all of their surpluses when oil was priced high and the economy was booming.  Now it is the West and Ontario's fault for Alberta's issues?  This was a province with zero debt and huge surpluses...what happened to fiscal responsibility?

 

By the way, I'm a proponent of doubling the TC pipeline and increasing refineries...I would much rather use oil here than from abroad or the U.S.  But Alberta's problems are Alberta's making...you preach self-responsibility...what about Alberta's management of their fiscal house?"

 

Sure, a government almost always mismanage. That is why government should be as small as possible to indeed create/push for self-responsibility with its citizens vs this: "we will provide you with everything".

 

Do you want to have a look at Ontario's finances?

 

And since oil development continues to be strangled by other provinces why should they send any money East via equalization. Does that make any sense? Their citizens should not pay for that via GST or income tax. These extra funds should remain in the province and not go to satisfy Quebec' socialist programs. 

 

And now Sharper is all admiration for that stupid Notley who was about to embark on another bundoggle to purchase billions $ worth of railcars... Companies are all too happy to move oil via pipeline or train. All they are asking for are permits. It is multiple times safer, efficient and doesn't cost a dollar from taxpayers.

 

She only reacted as a good socialist when government was about to run out of revenues due to royalties approaching zero. Then imposed mandated cuts or quotas to prop up government.

 

The root cause was her own stupidity of trusting Turdeau and imposing on her own citizens a carbon tax in exchange for TransMountain for which in her own heart she is probably all too happy to see it deadlock.

 

She then lied to gain votes by saying that it would be approved in May. Interestingly enough the Federal delayed the decision to June 18 right after the election. Ok, so did she say the truth or it was Turdeau, Butts and all the eco-terrorists trying to screw Alberta further?

 

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"Do you think that any of Alberta's issues are of Alberta's own foolishness?  They siphoned off all of the money they had put away for a rainy day, and blew all of their surpluses when oil was priced high and the economy was booming.  Now it is the West and Ontario's fault for Alberta's issues?  This was a province with zero debt and huge surpluses...what happened to fiscal responsibility?

 

By the way, I'm a proponent of doubling the TC pipeline and increasing refineries...I would much rather use oil here than from abroad or the U.S.  But Alberta's problems are Alberta's making...you preach self-responsibility...what about Alberta's management of their fiscal house?"

 

Sure, a government almost always mismanage. That is why government should be as small as possible to indeed create/push for self-responsibility with its citizens vs this: "we will provide you with everything".

 

Do you want to have a look at Ontario's finances?

 

And since oil development continues to be strangled by other provinces why should they send any money East via equalization. Does that make any sense? Their citizens should not pay for that via GST or income tax. These extra funds should remain in the province and not go to satisfy Quebec' socialist programs. 

 

And now Sharper is all admiration for that stupid Notley who was about to embark on another bundoggle to purchase billions $ worth of railcars... Companies are all too happy to move oil via pipeline or train. All they are asking for are permits. It is multiple times safer, efficient and doesn't cost a dollar from taxpayers.

 

She only reacted as a good socialist when government was about to run out of revenues due to royalties approaching zero. Then imposed mandated cuts or quotas to prop up government.

 

The root cause was her own stupidity of trusting Turdeau and imposing on her own citizens a carbon tax in exchange for TransMountain for which in her own heart she is probably all too happy to see it deadlock.

 

She then lied to gain votes by saying that it would be approved in May. Interestingly enough the Federal delayed the decision to June 18 right after the election. Ok, so did she say the truth or it was Turdeau, Butts and all the eco-terrorists trying to screw Alberta further?

 

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Absolutely nothing valid in your argument that negates Alberta's own fiscal mismanagement over two decades!  You reep what you sow and Alberta has sown nothing when things were good.  Cheers!

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Alberta has been very badly mismanaged for a very long time.

To get an idea as to just how badly mismanaged; look no further than the Alberta Heritage Trust Fund, created in 1976. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Heritage_Savings_Trust_Fund

 

Alberta has had how many ? YEARS to get pipeline egress built, and has sat on its ass the entire time. And during that entire time Alberta CONTINUALLY expanded Tar Sands production to the point where it has now made ALL oil in Alberta WORTHLESS.  We only have an industry today because a previous government finally imposed curtailment, and bought a rail fleet to move product.

 

Alberta addicted its citizenry to oil, and now ALL Abertan families are suffering withdrawal as the oil work goes away.

If all the province is going to do is 'rant' that it's everyone else's fault; it's going to be a real short conversation until the adults return. Lot of folks are sympathetic, but to a great many people the real solution is a comprehensive National Energy Policy 2.0. We also have o/g in other provinces, and the Maritimes. Alberta is hurting, but it is NOT 'special'.

 

The pipelines WILL get built, but it's not going to be tomorrow, or the day after.

One has to have been truly gifted, to have been this incompetent!

 

SD

 

 

 

Play fair - and be honest. Take the Northern Gateway project for example. First proposed in the mid-2000's, or roughly 14 years ago. Hardly sitting on your ass doing nothing. The problem is with your governments and the entire approval process. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enbridge_Northern_Gateway_Pipelines

 

And stupidity?  Don't ship oil from Alberta but import it from Saudi Arabia instead. After all their environmental record is so much better than Alberta? And they are second to none on human rights of course......

 

Hypocrisy runs freely -  its ok for Montreal to dump raw sewage into the river?  Tankers off the coast of BC are bad but ok in the St Lawrence?

 

I don't follow Canadian politics that closely, other than how it affects my E & P investments, but from what I can see, you can hardly lay the blame on Alberta.

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Raw sewage is spilled into the ocean in British Columbia also

 

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/04/11/we-really-should-be-a-model-for-the-entire-world-but-were-just-not-there-yet-advocate-on-vancouvers-sewage-overflow-problem.html

 

Alberta has been very badly mismanaged for a very long time.

To get an idea as to just how badly mismanaged; look no further than the Alberta Heritage Trust Fund, created in 1976. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Heritage_Savings_Trust_Fund

 

Alberta has had how many ? YEARS to get pipeline egress built, and has sat on its ass the entire time. And during that entire time Alberta CONTINUALLY expanded Tar Sands production to the point where it has now made ALL oil in Alberta WORTHLESS.  We only have an industry today because a previous government finally imposed curtailment, and bought a rail fleet to move product.

 

Alberta addicted its citizenry to oil, and now ALL Abertan families are suffering withdrawal as the oil work goes away.

If all the province is going to do is 'rant' that it's everyone else's fault; it's going to be a real short conversation until the adults return. Lot of folks are sympathetic, but to a great many people the real solution is a comprehensive National Energy Policy 2.0. We also have o/g in other provinces, and the Maritimes. Alberta is hurting, but it is NOT 'special'.

 

The pipelines WILL get built, but it's not going to be tomorrow, or the day after.

One has to have been truly gifted, to have been this incompetent!

 

SD

 

 

 

Play fair - and be honest. Take the Northern Gateway project for example. First proposed in the mid-2000's, or roughly 14 years ago. Hardly sitting on your ass doing nothing. The problem is with your governments and the entire approval process. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enbridge_Northern_Gateway_Pipelines

 

And stupidity?  Don't ship oil from Alberta but import it from Saudi Arabia instead. After all their environmental record is so much better than Alberta? And they are second to none on human rights of course......

 

Hypocrisy runs freely -  its ok for Montreal to dump raw sewage into the river?  Tankers off the coast of BC are bad but ok in the St Lawrence?

 

I don't follow Canadian politics that closely, other than how it affects my E & P investments, but from what I can see, you can hardly lay the blame on Alberta.

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We are not fans of the "comrades", we're fans of good governance. By whoever does it.

Like it or not, a great many people in Alberta owe their continuing paycheques to Notley's decision to curtail; credit due for what was a very hard decision. Whatever your political view, the Nov/Dec 2018 differentials evidenced the reality - that without incremental egress, Alberta's oil is currently worthless.

 

The stupidity/hypocrisy is why many folks think a NEP 2.0 is what's really needed.

Pipelines, processing, & environmental facilities as federal crown-corps. The peoples oil company, pipeline company, refinery company, rail/ tanker company, and carbon trading/sequesture company; and materially owned by the peoples pension funds. Oil from Newfoundland flowing WEST and SOUTH to Montreal and the US North-East; and either new, or upgrading of existing refineries to process it. Apparently this is socialism! yet almost everywhere else in the world, this is everyday business.

 

What's needed is leadership, what we have is politicians playing games; that everyone else is paying for.

In the mean-time it's more of the same, until those 'in the works' pipeline expansions ACTUALLY deliver - eventually.

That peoples rail-car fleet that starts arriving in July - is starting to look pretty damn good right now.

 

Instead .. we have politicians trying to cancel the 'bird in hand' egress, in favour of a Line-3 'bird in the bush' of uncertain timing.

No possibility that one might actually do BOTH until the other pipelines are ACTUALLY built? AND get a PREMIUM price for WCS replacing production from VZ? But, apparently, there are no adults in the room?

 

Yes Alberta is hurting, and folks are sympathetic.

But a lot of this is of Alberta's own making - as the solution will be. Step-up to the plate, and put the ranting away.

Is that really too much to ask?

 

SD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Before dismissing my arguments Parsad maybe you should do a little arithmetic?

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4710798/alberta-government-fiscal-update/

 

A $7.5 billion/year deficit while Quebec receives $14 billion/year in equalization from mostly Alberta and Saskatchewan. What happens if they stop paying? Should it not turn into a surplus?

 

I actually find it admirable that Alberta is still able to run such numbers after having gone through 4 years of hell with a socialist bunch who want to kill oil development, added a ton of red tape a la Obama on top of a 1 in 100 years oil crash.

 

Regarding my arguments, they are bang on. Governments always find a way to blow surpluses and run deficits to win elections. The smallest is government, the better. That is how you drive self-responsibility.

 

And Shalab and Zorrofan really brought up a great argument: Montreal and Vancouver people always have cleaner shit than the rest of us!

 

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As much as I shit on the left, I will admit, that conceptually, I dont think many conservatives, even the most far right ones, disagree or take issue with the "ideas" per say, that are perpetuated by many of the loonies. Rather, what we take issue to is the blindness exhibited in how to bridge the gap to that idea. Just like AOC, many lefties just have no clue how to make these things happen, and lazily, the answer is always to make somebody else pay for it. Conservatives meanwhile see that these ideas, while well intentioned, are pie in the sky and not economically feasible, nor just, if the only way to achieve them is to steal from a certain segment of the population.

 

 

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Before dismissing my arguments Parsad maybe you should do a little arithmetic?

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4710798/alberta-government-fiscal-update/

 

A $7.5 billion/year deficit while Quebec receives $14 billion/year in equalization from mostly Alberta and Saskatchewan. What happens if they stop paying? Should it not turn into a surplus?

 

I actually find it admirable that Alberta is still able to run such numbers after having gone through 4 years of hell with a socialist bunch who want to kill oil development, added a ton of red tape a la Obama on top of a 1 in 100 years oil crash.

 

Regarding my arguments, they are bang on. Governments always find a way to blow surpluses and run deficits to win elections. The smallest is government, the better. That is how you drive self-responsibility.

 

And Shalab and Zorrofan really brought up a great argument: Montreal and Vancouver people always have cleaner shit than the rest of us!

 

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I don't agree with the equalization payments when provinces are struggling themselves, but Alberta literally blew one of the greatest booms in the last 100 years in Canada or the United States:

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-budget-real-numbers-2018-data-1.4559769

 

When the lefties actually teach fiscal responsibility, then you say it's NIMBY.  Remember that BC and Quebec treat the riverways and natural resources they have as financial assets.  They don't want to kill the industries (from fishing to shipping to tourism) that survive on that asset...there's a balance. 

 

By the way, as I had mentioned before, I'm in favour of doubling the TC pipeline...but Alberta shouldn't be throwing around threats of shutting off taps, not buying other provincial products, when they screwed themselves over 30 years.  Booms and busts happen...Alberta should have known better!  Cheers!

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I don't think your logic makes sense Parsad.

 

You reference the equalization payments and then you just ignore them.  Alberta didn't blow a boom, they had their revenue taken via the equalization payments.  They would be sitting on several hundred billion right now if you add up all the equalization payments since the early 80's.

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"When the lefties actually teach fiscal responsibility, then you say it's NIMBY."

 

They were running a $7.5 billion/year deficit. How is that fiscal responsibility? Where were cuts to social programs?

 

What they did instead to get there was to create a carbon tax, raise taxes on corporations plus add a myriad of other regulations. How is that responsible when your economy is undergoing a massive crisis? You think this will create job and stimulate your economy?

 

"Remember that BC and Quebec treat the riverways and natural resources they have as financial assets.  They don't want to kill the industries (from fishing to shipping to tourism) that survive on that asset...there's a balance."

 

What is to remember is that these people are selfish pos and hypocrites. Not in my backyard applies fully. They will happily destroy their own land to make/save money but, when someone ask for help to carry oil safely through their land they say NO. Gotta to save the planet you know?

 

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I don't think your logic makes sense Parsad.

 

You reference the equalization payments and then you just ignore them.  Alberta didn't blow a boom, they had their revenue taken via the equalization payments.  They would be sitting on several hundred billion right now if you add up all the equalization payments since the early 80's.

 

Why does it not make sense?  What happened to the rest of the funds they generated...it's not as if the government took 70% for equalization payments.  They eliminated sales tax, started giving out Ralph bucks, reduced tax rates and ran deficit financing.  The rainy day eventually arrives and no one knew that better than Alberta with their cyclical economy.  Cheers!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Parsad, I think you have an inaccurate interpretation of the past Alberta governments. I lived there during the Lougheed, Getty, and Klein governments and they were generally fiscally responsible. There were legitimate attempts to diversity the economy, and they had to manage periods of low oil prices and downturns. It wasn’t wasteful wild spending governments if you actually lived it.

 

 

 

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Parsad, I think you have an inaccurate interpretation of the past Alberta governments. I lived there during the Lougheed, Getty, and Klein governments and they were generally fiscally responsible. There were legitimate attempts to diversity the economy, and they had to manage periods of low oil prices and downturns. It wasn’t wasteful wild spending governments if you actually lived it.

 

If I do, then I'm not the only one.  Cheers!

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/alberta/what-happened-to-albertas-cash-stash/article24191018/

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The main implication in the article is that Alberta should by now have a $1 trillion rainy day fund similar to an oil producing country. How realistic is that for a Canadian province.

 

No, it said a $40-50B fund comparable to Alaska would have been a reasonable expectation.  Cheers!

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The main implication in the article is that Alberta should by now have a $1 trillion rainy day fund similar to an oil producing country. How realistic is that for a Canadian province.

 

Quebec has the Quebec Pension Plan https://www.rrq.gouv.qc.ca/en/retraite/rrq/Pages/calcul_rente.aspx

and the Caisse de Depot https://www.cdpq.com/en. Apparently only Quebec can successfully make this type of investment?

Alberta's provincial governments have just been too incompetent?

 

SD

 

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Alberta has been forced to send $ billions per year to Quebec to save the Constitution. $13 billion this year for dear old Quebec...

 

So all they have to do is to stop that madness and in 4 or 5 years they have that fund that Parsad blames them for.

 

Cheers!

 

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