How's that wall going bud?

[SharperDingaan]

“We shut down the government for 35 days, we put America through this crisis, we jeopardized our economy — for what?” said Senator Richard J. Durbin of Illinois, the second-ranking Democrat in the upper chamber and a member of the House-Senate committee that negotiated this week’s spending deal. “Totally unnecessary.”

 

“Only in Washington, D.C., can we start out with needing $25 billion for border security measures and expect applause at 1.37,” he said Tuesday on Fox News. “I mean, only in D.C. is that a winning deal.”

 

www.msn.com/en-ca/news/newspolitics/news-analysis-trump-puts-best-face-on-border-deal-as-aides-try-to-assuage-an-angry-right/ar-BBTzgoI?ocid=spartandhp

 

At one point last year, the president and Democrats were close to a deal in which he would get all $25 billion for the wall in exchange for protections for 1.8 million young immigrants brought to the country illegally as children. But Mr. Trump ultimately turned away because he also wanted cuts to legal immigration that Democrats would not accept.

 

By the time Mr. Trump met with Ms. Pelosi and Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the Democratic leader, in December, they offered $1.375 billion. The president then insisted on $5.7 billion, and when he did not get it, much of the government was left without the funding to keep doors open.

 

The deal reached this week returned to the same $1.375 billion available in December to pay for 55 miles of fencing along the border, although not walls based on the new steel or concrete prototypes Mr. Trump has promoted.

 

25M/mile! (1375M/55) - what a great deal !!!

Trump: The art of the f*** up, get your copy now .... ?

 

SD

 

 

 

 

[cubsfan]

Well, for once you got it right SD. Congratulations.

 

The Democrats proved there is no compromising with a radical leftist party for the good of the country - none.

Trump got beat at the Art of the Deal - no doubt.

 

A few more victories like this - and we'll be Venezuela.

 

So let's see what happens now - if the American people get pissed off enough  - look for them to react in 2020.

AOC and all the other nut-bags may be the best thing that ever happened to Trump.

[SharperDingaan]

It's just the US constitution 'at work', doing what it's supposed to.

 

That Iran thing isn't going so well either. Neither is that Russia thing.

Distraction (N Korea) has limitations, & there can't be much juice left in the orange. The next election is in < 2 years, and unless the Republicans plan to run Trump again - there has to be a time limit on how much further this current engagement can go. The 'Office of the President' and the 'President' are not one and the same thing.

 

If there's going to be an impeachment, the republicans will need some time to clear the smell. The Chinese (trade), and the Russians (new arms race) also play the long game, and don't have to deal; Trump does.

 

The pendulum has swung towards polarization (versus right/left wing), accross the world, for quite some time now; but everything has it's time. Today there's a lot more to be gained by working together, to achieve a common good, versus just shouting. Simply offer Joe Six-Pack a Roosevelt type 'New Deal' that improves his/her prospects/day-to-day life, and Trumps 'popularism' goes up in smoke.

 

Trump has legitimately raised a number of very valid objections (cost of being 'policeman', poiltical corruption, immigration, etc.), but he's just too toxic a figure-head. There's a time for sh1t-kicking, and then there isn't.

 

Agreed it might not be too bad over the medium/long term.

Over the short/medium term - not so much.

 

SD

 

 

 

[cubsfan]

That all may be a little overstated.

 

- Iran is going just fine. The mullahs are on notice that if a "red line" is set - they don't dare cross it less they want holy hell to rain down on them.

  Unlike Obama, Trump follows up on his threats. And now, Trump has mobilized much of the Mideast against Iran.

 

- The Russia Hoax is coming to an end - and the real fun starts when the American people figure out it was all a political coup undertaken

  by a partisan FBI, DOJ and media. I'm really going enjoy this show.

 

- North Korea: NO President has EVER made as much progress as this President with the Hermit Kingdom. Get behind the guy already - as

  Americans - we should all hope progress continues.

 

- Polarization:  Thank your hero Barrack Obama for making identity politics the new tactic of the Left, when losing political power - and in

  the process stirring up hatred among both parties. Besides being Black, this will be Obama's lasting legacy - Identity Politics as the main weapon.

  When losing political power - call your opponent a racist - a brilliant, if ugly new tactic by the Left brought to you by Obama.

 

You'll see how toxic it gets in 2020 with the looney Left:  my prediction, if the economy is good, American's will reject socialism and continue

with a President whose main agenda is not LGBTQ, climate change, killing free speech, big government, and uncontrolled illegal immigration.

It's a war against an insane Left - and compromise is not in the Left's playbook.

 

The Democrats will double down on failure, having learned nothing from the last election.

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

There are MANY on the "left" who claim that walls are immoral and not effective.

 

Fair enough.

 

HOWEVER, there are many, many miles of wall/fences ALREADY built up on the USA/Mexican border.  Off the top of my head, I think of San Diego/Tijuana and the El Paso area.

 

Why are they not talking about taking these walls down?  Why go halfway?

[SharperDingaan]

We have a market.

 

Roll up, roll up, put your money on the orange man! Will he blow himself up? Will he be America's saving angel? Heads you win, odds to make you cry for!, roll up for the mystery tour! Or will the dogs take the fat man down?, red meat for the masses, and lots of it! The Chinese, the Russians, the Iranians, the Norh Koreans; the Democrats!. Place your  bets - before it's too late!

 

Both the Republican and Democrat parties have been around for a very long time, and each has survived its many 'enbarrassing' presidents; but it's always the 'party' that 'wins', not the encumbent. There is little reason to believe, that will be any different today. The question is whether Trump's still standing on the hangman's platform, or has the drop begun?

 

You're 'hired to fire', goes for the president too.

 

SD

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cubsfan]

Yeah, you're right SD - we really don't need a wall - there's no drug problem or criminal element issue with the border:

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/6-illegal-immigrants-arrested-in-nc-for-drug-trafficking-operation-officials-say

 

No big deal...

[Parsad]

Hey all:

 

There are MANY on the "left" who claim that walls are immoral and not effective.

 

Fair enough.

 

HOWEVER, there are many, many miles of wall/fences ALREADY built up on the USA/Mexican border.  Off the top of my head, I think of San Diego/Tijuana and the El Paso area.

 

Why are they not talking about taking these walls down?  Why go halfway?

 

That same stupid logic would then apply to everything...Republicans should push for zero taxes on corporations and individuals...Democrats should push for Universal healthcare and no private healthcare...environmentalists should push for zero emissions beginning tomorrow...athletes who use steroids should push for everyone to use steroids during competition...etc.

 

No one is saying walls don't work...just that they aren't the end all solution to the problem...and that the President who has a habit of using limited and inaccurate facts, is unilaterally spending money on a single idea that may have limited effect at this point.  All people are asking is that dollars be spent where they will have the most bang for the buck towards a solution...isn't that what all citizens should want?  Cheers!

[Guest MarkS]

Hey all:

 

There are MANY on the "left" who claim that walls are immoral and not effective.

 

Fair enough.

 

HOWEVER, there are many, many miles of wall/fences ALREADY built up on the USA/Mexican border.  Off the top of my head, I think of San Diego/Tijuana and the El Paso area.

 

Why are they not talking about taking these walls down?  Why go halfway?

 

Actually Beto has started talking about tearing the wall down.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/15/beto-orourke-id-absolutely-tear-down-border-wall-in-el-paso/

[SharperDingaan]

Cubsfan, if you cant pay for your drugs, there's no dealer to sell them to you.

There's also 'Make America Great Again'. Buy American! your criminal establishment needs you!

 

Few dispute that the US has a border problem, but putting a wall up isn't a practical solution.

This whole 'hysteria' is simply because Trump has put himself in a political box, that he can't get out of; no 'wall', and his base turns on him. Change the president, or build the wall, which one is more practical?

 

Our own thoughts are that the 'wall' money would be more effectively spent on simply expanding the trades schools in each of the southern border states. An illegal with a US trade certification will have a much higher quality of life back home. And those who choose to stay are now more valuable skilled labour.

 

Poverty, and privilege, with no place to go.

The real problem is the large numbers of semi-literate and unskilled american citizens in the southern border states, with very limited opportunities. Who are you going to hire? - the illegal who wants to work and can be paid under the table, or the american who acts like he/she is owed the job - simply because he/she is american? Gimme the job, or 'the boys in the sheets' will torch your place tonight?

 

It is no accident that this is much of Trumps base, and that they love him. He is by far, their best shot at change.

And that it's essentially the same thing in many other parts of the world as well.

 

Simply offer Trumps base a real 'new deal', and Trump's done.

The squeeky wheel gets the grease.

 

SD

 

[meiroy]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-farmaid/u-s-farmers-receive-7-7-billion-in-trade-aid-to-date-usda-idUSKCN1QB1KM

 

"U.S. Department of Agriculture has paid out $7.7 billion so far to farmers, William Northey, Undersecretary for Farm Production and Conservation, said on Friday, in aid designed to offset the negative impact of tariff imposition."

 

This is unbelievable! We could have used this money to build the Great Wall of America! It would have been so big and great you could see it from Mars! Like with 6G mobile thingie resolution you could send it over from Mars in one second!

 

EDI|T: update from Trump's twitter: "Right now, millions of great American farmers are building great walls all over our great nation! We will use this great wall to build our 6G generation of American based technology and all this is paid for by tariffs! MAGA!"

 

I take it back. Everything is OK.

 

[Cardboard]

But Meiroy unless I am mistaken you are European. If so, and based on history of us poor North Americans having to bail you out every time you screwed up why do you feel on having such upper hand?

 

Cardboard

[meiroy]

But Meiroy unless I am mistaken you are European. If so, and based on history of us poor North Americans having to bail you out every time you screwed up why do you feel on having such upper hand?

 

Cardboard

 

LOL.

 

I'm envious how you're so nonchalantly funny without even trying.

 

P.S. just to be clear, that Trump quote is real. I didn't make it up. At all.

 

 

[LC]

Cardboard aren’t you Canadian? I mean, if Europeans like meiroy can’t comment on US policies, what gives you the right?

[meiroy]

Cardboard aren’t you Canadian? I mean, if Europeans like meiroy can’t comment on US policies, what gives you the right?

 

Nice try LC.  I'm not going to confirm my whereabouts and on whose Yacht I am right now, but I will say that my comments here, in the politics section, have but one completely unselfish goal and that is to fix all of the world's ailments.  I do wholeheartedly believe that we here on CoBF through unfriendly and petty discussion can and will make the world a better place. A great place! GREAT! GREAT PLACE! GRAPES!

 

[Guest MarkS]

Meiroy

 

I just wish that the U.S. could build walls as well as the Europeans.  ?

 

[Cigarbutt]

Meiroy

 

I just wish that the U.S. could build walls as well as the Europeans.  ?

Walls are getting popular.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/borders-and-walls-do-barriers-deter-unauthorized-migration

In terms of bipartisan objectivity, I would say the article does a good job. The researcher mentioned, Élizabeth Vallet, had her work "quoted" by Mr. Trump. I understand though that she eventually sent her work to the White House as she felt that her conclusions were more nuanced and, in fact, tended to point to an opposite conclusion.

Walls are symbols.

Time to get out of gated communities.

[Guest MarkS]

Meiroy

 

I just wish that the U.S. could build walls as well as the Europeans.  ?

Walls are getting popular.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/borders-and-walls-do-barriers-deter-unauthorized-migration

In terms of bipartisan objectivity, I would say the article does a good job. The researcher mentioned, Élizabeth Vallet, had her work "quoted" by Mr. Trump. I understand though that she eventually sent her work to the White House as she felt that her conclusions were more nuanced and, in fact, tended to point to an opposite conclusion.

Walls are symbols.

Time to get out of gated communities.

 

I understand the arguments against walls.  However, when you have a dysfunctional Congress who either can't or won't fix the problem - by passing immigration reform - what other option do we have?

[cubsfan]

 

Time to get out of gated communities.

 

Don't tell Zuckerberg, Katy Perry and Jorge Ramos that!

 

Open border hypocrites!

[Cardboard]

This is what I despise the most about people like Meiroy:

 

"Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?"

 

Hypocrisy, arogance.

 

To my knowledge, the U.S. has never had, EVER, this level of prosperity and peace. Even violent crimes have resumed their downtrend after rebounding during Obama's 2nd term:

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

 

"I take it back. Everything is OK."

 

You have never made any mistake in your life? Said something that was dumb? That you would like to take back? So yes, when someone makes stupid comments like that and miss the big picture I will intervene.

 

And why do I care so much about the U.S.? Because I did live there, lots of friends down there and a country I admire greatly.

 

Also because I consider the U.S. to be the lighthouse. THE example that the world should try to emulate. Instead what we have by many here is trying to change it to their vision. Mostly coming from these places where they have monarchies, authoritarian regimes, social classes, inventors of facism, nazism, marxism and what other corrupt system?

 

Cardboard 

 

 

 

[Cigarbutt]

Reading Mr. Buffett's letter, trying to reconcile the long-term optimism and the short term caution, there may be a link with this topic.

 

When President Reagan offerd his vision, in his 1987 speech before the Brandenburg gates, many felt he was irrelevant when he said: "Tear down this wall". I would say he was not referring to the physical barrier, he was referring to the opportunity that the Soviets had, at the time.

 

In that optimist spirit, I would suggest to tear down this wall, the one that is lying in Congress. The US will do well, exceedingly well, but the sooner the better.

 

[Cardboard]

"I would say he was not referring to the physical barrier, he was referring to the opportunity that the Soviets had, at the time."

 

And what was the cause for that missed opportunity by the Soviets? Communism, socialism, government control.

[Guest MarkS]

Reading Mr. Buffett's letter, trying to reconcile the long-term optimism and the short term caution, there may be a link with this topic.

 

When President Reagan offerd his vision, in his 1987 speech before the Brandenburg gates, many felt he was irrelevant when he said: "Tear down this wall". I would say he was not referring to the physical barrier, he was referring to the opportunity that the Soviets had, at the time.

 

In that optimist spirit, I would suggest to tear down this wall, the one that is lying in Congress. The US will do well, exceedingly well, but the sooner the better.

 

 

You're clearly correct.  However, I've been waiting for that metaphorical wall to come down for far too long. It's time to try something else to fix the problem - even if it's "wrong."

[Cigarbutt]

Winston Churchill once noted that Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else. :)

 

"Our country’s almost unbelievable prosperity has been gained in a bipartisan manner. Since 1942, we have

had seven Republican presidents and seven Democrats. In the years they served, the country contended at various times

with a long period of viral inflation, a 21% prime rate, several controversial and costly wars, the resignation of a

president, a pervasive collapse in home values, a paralyzing financial panic and a host of other problems. All

engendered scary headlines; all are now history."  (my bold)

 

Warren Buffett, February 2019

[SharperDingaan]

We get what we vote for.

The founding fathers put checks and balances in on day-1, they work very well, and they continue to work today. Todays dysfunction just reflects the dysfunction of US society; the same thing occurred in Nixon's time - remember the civil rights movement and the Vietnam war? Sure we don't like NOT being able to do what we want, but the discourse is a healthy pressure release valve.

 

Gated communities are just gilded bird cages. They simply reflect the fears of those inside the cage, and their inability to adapt to the changing culture around them. You can be isolationist, and hide behind a wall; or you can mix with your surrounding culture, take their best things, and thrive. Ability to adapt. 

 

Every empire has its time; empires everywhere rise and fall, and the US in no exception.

The US does many things very well, however it is also badly in need of a wide-spread infrastructure rebuild. Social, economic, innovation, pretty much everything. But its also one of the few places, in the world, where you can do this without getting shot. Most recognize that once the US gets its act together - it'll be a great place.

 

The US today is much like the friend at the bar who's had too much to drink, that is picking fights with everyone. Friends can only do so much; after a while its just a recovery operation, and arranging how the now passed-out friend is going to pay for the broken furniture.

 

Replace the president, or build the wall, which is the more practical option?

Friends would suggest replace the president.

 

SD