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Re: Great article by Shelby Steele


Guest MarkS
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I'm a fan of Shelby Steele.  His writings on the politics of racial identity are priceless.  Attached is an article published in the WSJ on hatred and the left.  I post it in the hope that members of the board with left leanings will gain insight into how some of their positions are viewed by the right.  (I will gladly accept blame for friction between members - as I can certainly improve my abilities to argue without making it personal.)

 

https://outline.com/TXW6L8

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Marks - thanks for posting this excellent piece. What the left has done is oh, so clever, and taken them so, so far.

But, it's become increasingly transparent. It remains to be seen if it will still be effective, because so many people have bought into it.

 

I voted for Barrack Obama, our first black President, who I viewed like a Martin Luther King - a great unifier.

Boy, was I disappointed - President Obama took identity politics to a whole new art form - and wielded great political power for 8 years.

President Obama did more to divide this country along race and identity lines than any president I can remember.

 

I voted for a unifier - and I got the opposite - how severely disappointing.

 

Whatever you views - you should read this article that Mark posted - it gets to the core issue of what is going on today in politics and media in the USA.

 

And then you can make your own judgement about what is really happening.

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Interesting perspective MarkS.

 

I would say though that polarization is a bilateral issue (especially in the US).

http://www.people-press.org/2018/09/13/republicans-democrats-see-opposing-party-as-more-ideological-than-their-own/

 

Anecdotally, we had a family discussion last night about our upcoming provincial election (irrelevant to you). Interestingly, the discussion was quite heated and the four of us voting today (with two voting in their first provincial election) will likely vote for four different parties! I would criticize that such a result (diffuse) is likely not the best outcome. I would say however that polarization, like inequality, is a good thing up to a certain point as linking up to a bundled position at any price may end up costing you on the coherence side. (That conclusion is showing up in certain political posts) :)

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I would say however that polarization, like inequality, is a good thing up to a certain point as linking up to a bundled position at any price may end up costing you on the coherence side. (That conclusion is showing up in certain political posts) :)

 

This is insightful for sure. The greater the interest and debate around politics by all citizens - the better off the country will be.

 

What is sorely needed in this mix is an unbiased press and the truth, in order for citizens to make a correct INFORMED decision for themselves.

When the news media is 90% slanted with negative Trump articles (per recent Harvard study) - then the citizens interests are not served,

only the biased party. 

 

Opinion journalism is totally fine - but not when it is not clearly disclosed. That is the problem we have today - Fake News masquerading as "truth".

 

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Cubsfan “What is sorely needed in this mix is an unbiased press and the truth, in order for citizens to make a correct INFORMED decision for themselves.

When the news media is 90% slanted with negative Trump articles (per recent Harvard study) - then the citizens interests are not served,

only the biased party.

 

I agree that each of the news media outlets have their bias. However, Trump is the person who has decided to use twitter multiple times per day. And much of the times he tweets it is quite abrasive to some person, group, country etc. I am being very polite when i say ‘abrasive’. Also, he will often say something that is a complete lie.

 

My view, is we need to hold the President to a very high standard. When he lies it should be front page news. Every time. When he acts un-Presidential (pick any number of examples here) it should be front page news. Every time. His actions will therefore domnate the news headlines and in a way that he will feel is negative. Given everything Trump does and says every day it should not be surprising that 90% of the articles are perceived as biased to him. The problem I see is everyone getting used to Trump’s terrible behavior and getting desensitized and giving him a free pass and not reporting it as the big deal it is every time it happens (usually daily).

 

Having said that i also think Trump’s has some accomplishments that being are underreported. Tax cuts, deregulation, low energy costs, better trade deals for US, rolling back Obamacare are clearly good for business owners.

 

In November, voters in the US will start to weigh in on Trump the man vs what a Trump presidency is delivering in terms of policy. It will be a crazy 7 weeks :-)

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The biggest issue in all of this is the now commonplace attitude of "I disagree with your political views so I hate you and you must be a shitty person" attitude. Seen it a ton even on a site like this which is supposed to be higher level thinkers.

 

I agree it's a big problem.  You might want to keep this in mind next time you write something like "liberals just want to murder babies".

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The biggest issue in all of this is the now commonplace attitude of "I disagree with your political views so I hate you and you must be a shitty person" attitude. Seen it a ton even on a site like this which is supposed to be higher level thinkers.

 

I agree it's a big problem.  You might want to keep this in mind next time you write something like "liberals just want to murder babies".

 

I agree. I am no saint and fall short sometimes. In the above stated example, I should have clarified. They want to "right" to murder babies. But that doesn't make all liberals baby murderers. Careless wording on my part.

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I'm a fan of Shelby Steele.  His writings on the politics of racial identity are priceless.  Attached is an article published in the WSJ on hatred and the left.  I post it in the hope that members of the board with left leanings will gain insight into how some of their positions are viewed by the right.  (I will gladly accept blame for friction between members - as I can certainly improve my abilities to argue without making it personal.)

 

https://outline.com/TXW6L8

 

Interesting read, though it seems very heavy handed to me.  Is this typical of the author?  The concluding paragraph, in particular, takes a very hard line without even a suggestion of backing evidence. Or is it simply understood by all parties in the US that virtually every program that came from the left has been an abject failure?

 

And does it just suck to be a moderate in the US right now?  Has the political centre been hollowed out along with the traditional middle class?  Serious questions.  It baffles me how binary the political discourse has become.  Seems you just decide whether your opponent is "left" or "right" and then plug your ears and scream. By "you" I mean "one", not MarkS in particular!  It must be very frustrating.

 

 

 

 

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And does it just suck to be a moderate in the US right now? Has the political centre been hollowed out along with the traditional middle class?  Serious questions.

 

Bingo!!  - Doc you hit the nail on the head. Barrack Obama drove the Democratic Party so far to the left - we are having a revolt in this country.

Look at the nut cake leaders in the party now: Pelosi, Reid, Pocohontas, Maxine Waters, etc... and that's just the old guard.

The new younger wave is even scarier -  Ellison, Perez, Ocasio-Cortez, etc -- these people are frickin' bonkers.

 

People are tired of identity politics and the divisiveness.  All Trump is doing is taking the party back to the CENTER.  Trump's party actually looks

much more like the Bill Clinton Party of the Mid-90's.  No open borders, good economic decisions, no identity politics, respect for our police,

reasonable foreign policy -with no retrenchment. Bill Clinton had a much more common sense approach.

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Guest Schwab711

Everyone on this board understands you didn't like Obama and you don't like liberals. Everyday is another 10 posts repeating the same damn thing. Give it a rest. Your negativity is contagious.

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Guest Schwab711

Everyone on this board understands you didn't like Obama and you don't like liberals. Everyday is another 10 posts repeating the same damn thing. Give it a rest. Your negativity is contagious.

 

KMA Schwab

 

You have an ignore button, so use it.

 

You have other options online to vent at, so use them. It works both ways. Me ignoring you or not doesn't fix the problem on this forum. We are losing quality posters and there's constant political complaints on the new posts. This is an investing forum. I'm not the best person to write this because I've written about politics quite a bit too. Either way, I'm not saying don't post about politics. I just think it's ironic you are so damn repetitively negative in a thread that's about bridging "friction between members [of this forum]", written by a person that agrees with most of your views. I question why I bother writing on or even checking this forum anymore. It's a negative environment with little to offer lately, investing-wise.

 

That brings me back to the bolded part.

 

Edit: I didn't know how to write this without sounding like the forum's cop or moderator. I'm not, I don't want to be, and no one else wants me to be either. I gave my opinion. I assume you are an adult and you'll make your own choices. You give your opinion on a lot of topics and ask for people to be open-minded. I ask for the same now.

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Everyone on this board understands you didn't like Obama and you don't like liberals. Everyday is another 10 posts repeating the same damn thing. Give it a rest. Your negativity is contagious.

 

KMA Schwab

 

You have an ignore button, so use it.

 

You have other options online to vent at, so use them. It works both ways. Me ignoring you or not doesn't fix the problem on this forum. We are losing quality posters and there's constant political complaints on the new posts. This is an investing forum. I'm not the best person to write this because I've written about politics quite a bit too. Either way, I'm not saying don't post about politics. I just think it's ironic you are so damn repetitively negative in a thread that's about bridging "friction between members [of this forum]", written by a person that agrees with most of your views. I question why I bother writing on or even checking this forum anymore. It's a negative environment with little to offer lately, investing-wise.

 

That brings me back to the bolded part.

 

Schwab - I could care less what you think.  Which brings me back to the bolded part.

 

This is a Politics Forum NOT an Investment Forum. Deal with it accordingly.

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Everyone on this board understands you didn't like Obama and you don't like liberals. Everyday is another 10 posts repeating the same damn thing. Give it a rest. Your negativity is contagious.

 

KMA Schwab

 

You have an ignore button, so use it.

 

You have other options online to vent at, so use them. It works both ways. Me ignoring you or not doesn't fix the problem on this forum. We are losing quality posters and there's constant political complaints on the new posts. This is an investing forum. I'm not the best person to write this because I've written about politics quite a bit too. Either way, I'm not saying don't post about politics. I just think it's ironic you are so damn repetitively negative in a thread that's about bridging "friction between members [of this forum]", written by a person that agrees with most of your views. I question why I bother writing on or even checking this forum anymore. It's a negative environment with little to offer lately, investing-wise.

 

That brings me back to the bolded part.

 

Edit: I didn't know how to write this without sounding like the forum's cop or moderator. I'm not, I don't want to be, and no one else wants me to be either. I gave my opinion. I assume you are an adult and you'll make your own choices. You give your opinion on a lot of topics and ask for people to be open-minded. I ask for the same now.

 

I don't disagree with you, but I don't know why we label this a politics problem. Maybe people utilize other forms, simply because 90% of the stuff here over maybe the last 6-12 months(that I've noticed), in terms of investing discussion, is stupid, redundant crap about "oh gee, you think BRK.B is cheap?" or "should I buy more FFH here?". I am aware of the title of the site, but for instance, if we had more DTE1997's I'm sure the quality of investing idea related discussion increases.

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At current prices there's actually not much to invest in these days. So that probably explains the lack of investing ideas. Politics is one way to pass the time.

 

Discussion actually reflects the current state of affairs. Ignoring it would be a little like taking the ostrich way out.

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Interesting perspective MarkS.

 

I would say though that polarization is a bilateral issue (especially in the US).

http://www.people-press.org/2018/09/13/republicans-democrats-see-opposing-party-as-more-ideological-than-their-own/

 

Anecdotally, we had a family discussion last night about our upcoming provincial election (irrelevant to you). Interestingly, the discussion was quite heated and the four of us voting today (with two voting in their first provincial election) will likely vote for four different parties! I would criticize that such a result (diffuse) is likely not the best outcome. I would say however that polarization, like inequality, is a good thing up to a certain point as linking up to a bundled position at any price may end up costing you on the coherence side. (That conclusion is showing up in certain political posts) :)

 

The polarization in both the right and left is very unfortunate and as a German I cannot help but see that a similar issue p caused the downfall of the Weimar Republik. To have no middle ground and opposing parties poles that despise the opposition is very damaging and the US seems to head this way. The problem is that Trump is very polarizing and makes absolutely no effort to reach a middle ground. I never felt this way about any other president so far.

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The polarization in both the right and left is very unfortunate and as a German I cannot help but see that a similar issue p caused the downfall of the Weimar Republik. To have no middle ground and opposing parties poles that despise the opposition is very damaging and the US seems to head this way. The problem is that Trump is very polarizing and makes absolutely no effort to reach a middle ground. I never felt this way about any other president so far.

1+

 

At current prices there's actually not much to invest in these days. So that probably explains the lack of investing ideas. Politics is one way to pass the time.

Discussion actually reflects the current state of affairs. Ignoring it would be a little like taking the ostrich way out.

1+ (at least within a certain opportunity set and selection criteria)

 

 

The absence of screaming buys and the current environment can be disturbing.

https://www.edvardmunch.org/the-scream.jsp

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To have no middle ground and opposing parties poles that despise the opposition is very damaging and the US seems to head this way. The problem is that Trump is very polarizing and makes absolutely no effort to reach a middle ground.

 

I don't think this is correct. Trump is a centrist - the right wing of the Republican Party does not like him, because he's too moderate.

And certainly the left wing and majority of Democratic Party despises him.  But the Trump government of today, looks much more like

the Bill Clinton government of the mid 1990's.  Trump is bringing government back to the center - respect for the military, respect for police,

strong foreign policy (not an apologist), backing Israel, respect for borders, economic focused.

 

And Trump does not apologize for being American, like Obama.

 

You can dislike his methods - but his "polarization" is because the previous administration went so far to the left and used identity politics

to brand anyone that did not agree with them as racist, homophobic or sexist.  He fights fire with fire. Look no further than the failure of

Mitt Romney and John McCain - who were so "nice" as not to play dirty like the left. Unfortunately that is our politics today.

 

From day 1 - the Democrats made it obvious they would NEVER work with Trump - NEVER.  A large majority of the Democrats boycotted

the Presidential inauguration - on the first day!  Our country always prided itself on "Peaceful transition of Power" after Presidential elections.

Democrats totally broke with tradition and started calling for impeachment day one. 

 

Just ask yourself a common sense question:  How do you work with a party like that?

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To have no middle ground and opposing parties poles that despise the opposition is very damaging and the US seems to head this way. The problem is that Trump is very polarizing and makes absolutely no effort to reach a middle ground.

 

I don't think this is correct. Trump is a centrist - the right wing of the Republican Party does not like him, because he's too moderate.

And certainly the left wing and majority of Democratic Party despises him.  But the Trump government of today, looks much more like

the Bill Clinton government of the mid 1990's.  Trump is bringing government back to the center - respect for the military, respect for police,

strong foreign policy (not an apologist), backing Israel, respect for borders, economic focused.

 

And Trump does not apologize for being American, like Obama.

 

You can dislike his methods - but his "polarization" is because the previous administration went so far to the left and used identity politics

to brand anyone that did not agree with them as racist, homophobic or sexist.  He fights fire with fire. Look no further than the failure of

Mitt Romney and John McCain - who were so "nice" as not to play dirty like the left. Unfortunately that is our politics today.

 

From day 1 - the Democrats made it obvious they would NEVER work with Trump - NEVER.  A large majority of the Democrats boycotted

the Presidential inauguration - on the first day!  Our country always prided itself on "Peaceful transition of Power" after Presidential elections.

Democrats totally broke with tradition and started calling for impeachment day one. 

 

Just ask yourself a common sense question:  How do you work with a party like that?

 

These are the questions which always seem to draw crickets from Dougie, Liberty, LC and the rest of the crew. You might get called a name though.

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"Just ask yourself a common sense question:  How do you work with a party like that?"

 

You can't. Liberals today are the Nazis of yesterday. Both were socialists as I mentioned multiple times.

 

They assassinate political opponents via the media, exagerated or made up stories. They are very violent and will not hesitate to physically beat their adversaries. There is no middle ground possible with them: my way or the highway. All their laws have to be approved and applauded no matter if it hurts or are unpopular with a majority of the population. They control the education system all the way through universities via teachers who are unionized.

 

Now, there is a guy fighting back this indoctrination and he is compared to Hitler... Wow! To me that is more like democracy or ensuring a debate between left and right.

 

Cardboard

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"Just ask yourself a common sense question:  How do you work with a party like that?"

 

You can't. Liberals today are the Nazis of yesterday. Both were socialists as I mentioned multiple times.

 

They assassinate political opponents via the media, exagerated or made up stories. They are very violent and will not hesitate to physically beat their adversaries. There is no middle ground possible with them: my way or the highway. All their laws have to be approved and applauded no matter if it hurts or are unpopular with a majority of the population. They control the education system all the way through universities via teachers who are unionized.

 

Now, there is a guy fighting back this indoctrination and he is compared to Hitler... Wow! To me that is more like democracy or ensuring a debate between left and right.

 

Cardboard

 

The question is how don you work with Trump? He made it clear at the beginning, that he wanted to tally change/ kill everything his predecessor did. His negotiating tactic is to bully the other party and pull them over the table, if he can. That’s his „ Art of the Deal“. There isn’t really anything in it for the other party.

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The question is how don you work with Trump? He made it clear at the beginning, that he wanted to tally change/ kill everything his predecessor did. His negotiating tactic is to bully the other party and pull them over the table, if he can. That’s his „ Art of the Deal“. There isn’t really anything in it for the other party.

 

Oh, my gosh, you could not be more wrong. Time after time, Trump has extended out or floated compromise proposals to the Democrats, even

to the fury of the Republican right wing. Look no further than this ongoing immigration battle.  Trump has offered to guarantee  2 million undocumented

dreamers a platform to citizenship, along with a path for current illegals immigrants.  He's gone to great lengths to compromise on this HUGE issue --

and unless the Democrats get EVERYTHING they want - they continue to race bait the president. Even, his own party is fighting him on the

specifics he is willing to concede. But for the Democrats - they just "move the goal posts" with every Trump concession. They do not want him to succeed - ever.

 

The Democratic Party Strategy is clear:    We want to offer the current President of the United States NO chance to look good. We want him impeached.

 

There is no middle ground. They are terrified of this President being successful.

 

It is so, so obvious.

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Except Democrats AGREED TO GIVE TRUMP HIS WALL

 

Goddamn, you gang rape supporting Republicans are all projection and no memory

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-trump-isnt-taking-democrats-offer-for-a-wall/

 

Hey asshole, why are you posting this completely biased very old article from the liberal blog site own by ABC news, king of Fake News?

 

Trump gets his wall, the illegals get their pathway to citizenship (excluding criminals which Dems want to keep).

 

Keep throwing your tantrum just like Maxine Waters and Pelosi - it doesn't make you look smart Otsog.

 

 

 

 

 

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