LC Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Haven't seen this topic come up yet. https://www.apnews.com/9794de32d39d4c6f89fbefaea3780769 More than 1,100 people were inside the large, dark facility that’s divided into separate wings for unaccompanied children, adults on their own, and mothers and fathers with children. The cages in each wing open out into common areas to use portable restrooms. The overhead lighting in the warehouse stays on around the clock. Fuck this shallow jingoism. A comment I saw put it well: Not one single other "civilized" country cages up the children of people who are fleeing persecution and forces other children to care for them as their parents or guardians are dragged away screaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 The administration's various responses: Kelly: We'll only do it if the mom's a drug addict, but let's not put anything in writing. (1:49:25) https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/hearings/improving-border-security-and-public-safety Sessions: The Bible told us to do it. http://time.com/5312987/jeff-sessions-separating-immigrant-families/ Trump: The Democrats made us do it. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-democrats-blame-separation-of-families-us-mexico-border-a8402226.html Miller: It's our policy to do it. https://www.gq.com/story/stephen-miller-wants-credit-families-border Nielsen: We're not doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Haven't seen this topic come up yet. https://www.apnews.com/9794de32d39d4c6f89fbefaea3780769 More than 1,100 people were inside the large, dark facility that’s divided into separate wings for unaccompanied children, adults on their own, and mothers and fathers with children. The cages in each wing open out into common areas to use portable restrooms. The overhead lighting in the warehouse stays on around the clock. Fuck this shallow jingoism. A comment I saw put it well: Not one single other "civilized" country cages up the children of people who are fleeing persecution and forces other children to care for them as their parents or guardians are dragged away screaming. Sounds like a concentration camp to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Haven't seen this topic come up yet. https://www.apnews.com/9794de32d39d4c6f89fbefaea3780769 More than 1,100 people were inside the large, dark facility that’s divided into separate wings for unaccompanied children, adults on their own, and mothers and fathers with children. The cages in each wing open out into common areas to use portable restrooms. The overhead lighting in the warehouse stays on around the clock. Fuck this shallow jingoism. A comment I saw put it well: Not one single other "civilized" country cages up the children of people who are fleeing persecution and forces other children to care for them as their parents or guardians are dragged away screaming. I would agree with that. But when the President of that "civilized country" qualifies the citizens of the other country as "murderers, rapists and criminals", I don't think you can expect empathy or humanity to prevail. The policy is what it is...whether right or wrong...they are fixing a systemic problem that had gone on too long and so the sheer size of the problem is overwhelming. But this is where the Trump children, if they really, really wanted to make a difference, especially with Ivanka and Melania talking about how this issue could be resolved, they could show a bit of humanity and go to some of these facilities and see how things could be improved in the process. But unfortunately, their father is using the cruel tactics as a ploy to get Democrats to bend...via compassion or pressure from society...so it is what it is, and half of the U.S. is ok with it, while the other half cries out. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharperDingaan Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Welcome to the republican party - every time a wrenching mother/child clip shows up on the media. Great image to defend against in the coming mid-terms. SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 When a country's solution to it's big problem involves using concentration camps then something seriously went seriously wrong with said country. History will not look down kindly on these people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardboard Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 "When a country's solution to it's big problem involves using concentration camps then something seriously went seriously wrong with said country. History will not look down kindly on these people." "...everyone detained is given adequate food, access to showers and laundered clothes, and medical care. People are supposed to move through the facility quickly. Under U.S. law, children are required to be turned over within three days to shelters funded by the Department of Health and Human Services." Ok. History did not look too bad on Roosevelt for caging Japanese Americans for years because they were simply from Japanese origin. Why? Oh yes, he was a Democrat!!! Not a racist or bigot. Never would these words be side by side with the name Roosevelt. I am sure that all the people having spoken on this thread so far would prefer for these people to be left homeless, food less and with no running water sitting and sleeping in the streets of San Diego or in some border town in Texas? I wonder how that facility or similar facilities were run during Obama? Never mind. We will never find out. Everything was rosy! Cardboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 "When a country's solution to it's big problem involves using concentration camps then something seriously went seriously wrong with said country. History will not look down kindly on these people." "...everyone detained is given adequate food, access to showers and laundered clothes, and medical care. People are supposed to move through the facility quickly. Under U.S. law, children are required to be turned over within three days to shelters funded by the Department of Health and Human Services." Ok. History did not look too bad on Roosevelt for caging Japanese Americans for years because they were simply from Japanese origin. Why? Oh yes, he was a Democrat!!! Not a racist or bigot. Never would these words be side by side with the name Roosevelt. I am sure that all the people having spoken on this thread so far would prefer for these people to be left homeless, food less and with no running water sitting and sleeping in the streets of San Diego or in some border town in Texas? I wonder how that facility or similar facilities were run during Obama? Never mind. We will never find out. Everything was rosy! Cardboard Why is the Republican/Conservative answer to issues with Donald Trump's behaviour always about looking at past administrations? Cardboard, is it so difficult to look at a situation independently, and come to a conclusion that it could be done better? If Donald Trump was standing on top the Empire State building jacking off, would the Republican response be: Well Obama did it! Clinton was doing it in the Oval Office! Would that be a rational response? Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardboard Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 No, it is not difficult at all for me to say that there is always room for improvement, in anything. However, you people (the left or anti-Trump) have lost any sense of critical thinking in whatever is brought to you by the media. It is 100% about demonizing the man and that is what I am upset about and that includes some of your comments Sanjeev about bigot and racism which I find highly unfair. What did these people leave? Murder, rape, gang violence, poverty in their respective country. Travelled 100's of miles in terrible conditions. Now they are being fed, can sleep, are protected. Now, some of the childrens are separated temporarily from their parents for hours, a few days, maybe even weeks because of another government lead system fiasco and that is the biggest trauma ever they have ever faced? Trump is Hitler? Cardboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cameron Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Haven't seen this topic come up yet. https://www.apnews.com/9794de32d39d4c6f89fbefaea3780769 More than 1,100 people were inside the large, dark facility that’s divided into separate wings for unaccompanied children, adults on their own, and mothers and fathers with children. The cages in each wing open out into common areas to use portable restrooms. The overhead lighting in the warehouse stays on around the clock. Fuck this shallow jingoism. A comment I saw put it well: Not one single other "civilized" country cages up the children of people who are fleeing persecution and forces other children to care for them as their parents or guardians are dragged away screaming. Sounds like a concentration camp to me. You might need a refresher on what went on in concentration camps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 No, it is not difficult at all for me to say that there is always room for improvement, in anything. However, you people (the left or anti-Trump) have lost any sense of critical thinking in whatever is brought to you by the media. It is 100% about demonizing the man and that is what I am upset about and that includes some of your comments Sanjeev about bigot and racism which I find highly unfair. What did these people leave? Murder, rape, gang violence, poverty in their respective country. Travelled 100's of miles in terrible conditions. Now they are being fed, can sleep, are protected. Now, some of the childrens are separated temporarily from their parents for hours, a few days, maybe even weeks because of another government lead system fiasco and that is the biggest trauma ever they have ever faced? Trump is Hitler? Cardboard I agree with you on the Trump is Hitler/concentration camp comments. But there is no doubt the man is an ass and a bigot...he's the living persona of Archie Bunker. And there is a blind faith that permeates the landscape...just like it did with Obama...no matter what happens, there is always an excuse for his actions. It's never about doing better or unity, but always them versus us whether domestically or internationally...and Trump has taken that to a level that none of his predecessors ever did! Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardboard Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 "And there is a blind faith that permeates the landscape...just like it did with Obama...no matter what happens, there is always an excuse for his actions." No there is not. This thread is a prime example. Every negative element is scrutinized, next day into the media globally. Nothing gets missed. He is always blamed for everything negative and if we are to believe polls around President approval, then the negative drumbeat is winning. "It's never about doing better or unity, but always them versus us whether domestically or internationally...and Trump has taken that to a level that none of his predecessors ever did! Cheers!" Obama was the worst divider I have ever seen. You can't recall 2011 when U.S. debt was downgraded? And a myriad of examples after? He did all he could to stick it to the Republicans in any way possible. He blamed Bush for what 6 or 7 years? Way worst than Trump. Maybe that you did not pay attention because he did fit your political views but, that is the truth. However, he was pretty good for reading speaches and at apologizing on the world scene like our own Trudeau while he supported uprisings in Libya, Ukraine, Syria which lead to 100's of thousands of deaths. You talked about race relations going back 40 some years. Well, the previous guy did all he could to worsen the situation by supporting Black Lives matter and not denouncing all kinds of groups that I would consider black superiority movements. Maybe that Obama was an anti-white racist after all. Cardboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 Audio footage of these "temporary separations" A border agent jokes remarks through the screams: "Well, we have an orchestra here, right? ... What we're missing is a conductor." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 Ok. History did not look too bad on Roosevelt for caging Japanese Americans for years because they were simply from Japanese origin. Why? ... I wonder how that facility or similar facilities were run during Obama? Never mind. We will never find out. Everything was rosy! And none of that make the current Border Patrol policy right!!! Sounds to me like you are deflecting attention here. I am sure that all the people having spoken on this thread so far would prefer for these people to be left homeless, food less and with no running water sitting and sleeping in the streets of San Diego or in some border town in Texas? Or perhaps with their parents and not in a cage, as their parents go to immigration courts, as previous administrations did. The worst part is as Sanjeev mentioned - Trump is literally ripping kids away from their parents as a political move to force Democrat concessions. A Trump administration policy now charges every adult caught crossing the border illegally with federal crimes, as opposed to referring those with children mainly to immigration courts, as previous administrations did. President Donald Trump has repeatedly blamed the Democrats for the situation despite his administration instituting the policy change. "Democrats can fix their forced family breakup at the Border by working with Republicans on new legislation, for a change!" he tweeted on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregmal Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I can't imagine doing something that I know is illegal and risking separation from my family in the process. Especially when there is a legal route to accomplishing this exact same thing... I think the bigger issue is Mexico/Central/South America getting their shit together. Especially in Mexico, the degree to which government has failed is astonishing. People like to bitch about our politicians but holy heck, you've got murders in the tens of thousands, missing people all over, entire school buses of kids disappearing, bodies hanging from bridges and washing up at tourists beaches, etc. It's like the Mafia in the mid 1900's in NYC. It gets to these points because people let it get there, and then at a certain point it becomes out of anyone's control. To which they need outside help, particularly from the US. But what are they willing to give us in return? Nothing, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliG Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I can't imagine doing something that I know is illegal and risking separation from my family in the process. Especially when there is a legal route to accomplishing this exact same thing... In theory, yes, there is a legal route. They are supposed to claim asylum at a port of entry. In practice, current administration is deliberately trying to block them, making it very hard or impossible to enter legally. https://theintercept.com/2018/06/16/immigration-border-asylum-central-america/ Quote: "U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents are systematically violating U.S. and international law by blocking immigrants at international ports of entry on the southern border from entering the country so they can claim asylum. Immigration civil rights advocates have been documenting this illegal behavior since late 2016, from Texas to California. It was sporadic then, and appears to have been based at least in part on CBP’s difficulties with handling large numbers of people. Even so, the practice of turning immigrants away has suddenly become routine, creating chilling scenes of immigrants and children camped out near the bridges, exposed to sun, wind, and rain, amid make-do bedding, scattered clothing, and trash. A few times a day, the immigrants walk to the middle of the bridges and ask to be admitted to the port of entry building on the U.S. side so that they can request asylum. They are almost always turned back." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 "And there is a blind faith that permeates the landscape...just like it did with Obama...no matter what happens, there is always an excuse for his actions." No there is not. This thread is a prime example. Every negative element is scrutinized, next day into the media globally. Nothing gets missed. He is always blamed for everything negative and if we are to believe polls around President approval, then the negative drumbeat is winning. "It's never about doing better or unity, but always them versus us whether domestically or internationally...and Trump has taken that to a level that none of his predecessors ever did! Cheers!" Obama was the worst divider I have ever seen. You can't recall 2011 when U.S. debt was downgraded? And a myriad of examples after? He did all he could to stick it to the Republicans in any way possible. He blamed Bush for what 6 or 7 years? Way worst than Trump. Maybe that you did not pay attention because he did fit your political views but, that is the truth. However, he was pretty good for reading speaches and at apologizing on the world scene like our own Trudeau while he supported uprisings in Libya, Ukraine, Syria which lead to 100's of thousands of deaths. You talked about race relations going back 40 some years. Well, the previous guy did all he could to worsen the situation by supporting Black Lives matter and not denouncing all kinds of groups that I would consider black superiority movements. Maybe that Obama was an anti-white racist after all. Cardboard Again, you are defending his actions by the behavior of others...not Trump be a better leader and better person...but Trump is the way he is because the left-wing has made him so. That's not a lesson you would teach children, so why is it ok when it comes to the President? Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I can't imagine doing something that I know is illegal and risking separation from my family in the process. Especially when there is a legal route to accomplishing this exact same thing... My guess is that you have lived a fairly comfortable life, were never in life or death danger, or threatened with starvation, etc. So you've never even had to think about having to make these kind of choices, much less make one and carry it out. So don't pretend to understand. Also please explain to use the exact existing legal process that accomplishes the exact same thing. Please provide backup. I think the bigger issue is Mexico/Central/South America getting their shit together. Especially in Mexico, the degree to which government has failed is astonishing. People like to bitch about our politicians but holy heck, you've got murders in the tens of thousands, missing people all over, entire school buses of kids disappearing, bodies hanging from bridges and washing up at tourists beaches, etc. It's like the Mafia in the mid 1900's in NYC. It gets to these points because people let it get there, and then at a certain point it becomes out of anyone's control. To which they need outside help, particularly from the US. But what are they willing to give us in return? Nothing, of course. You are correct in your assessment here. But seriously, why do you need something in return (payment?) from poor countries to help? Wouldn't the US benefit massively from peace, stability, and prosperity on its southern flank? If you're refusing assistance that could make that happen because you're not getting something in return (from countries that don't really have anything to give) isn't that bit like cutting your nose to spite your face? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookie71 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 As a former Republican (local state treasurer for Nixon, I've noticed that when the Trump supporters don't have a good argument, they start blaming Obama. If that sounds weak they blame Bill and Hillary. None of them are in power now so it really doesn't matter. At some point someone has to say that" The emperor isn't wearing any clothes. jmho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Wow! Cardboard you were on fire today. The bubble is strong with you. Obama got Card Blanche to whatever he wanted to do? Obama got blasted like crazy from the left for all sorts of things. Among them surveillance, drone strikes, and deportations. It got so bad that no liberal office holder wanted him to campaign for him or her in the 2014 mid terms. And seriously the credit downgrade? The US rating got downgraded because a certain party played chicken with the full faith and credit of the United States government. Threatening to force a default if their savage spending conditions were not met because they were supposedly so concerned about the US deficit. Do you remember which party that was? I seem to remember it was the Republican one. Fast forward a few years and that party that was so concerned about the deficit is in complete power. What does it do? Vote in legislation that significantly expands the deficit. So give me (or us?) a break. You're not a guest on fox news using the force to sway weak minded bumpkins - these are not the deficits you're looking for. I'm really good at that math thing and my memory is good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharperDingaan Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 The detention center 'dog cages' are entirely on Trump. His decicision. I murder someone, 'cause the devil (Obama) made me do it, is not an excuse. The PR fiasco is purely Trumps f****p. The trade pissing match with almost the entire world, is entirely on Trump. Another f****p. Instead, the only thing the chump has actually done - is cost a great many people their jobs. Republicans made him the head of their party, & continue to keep him there. I pin the arms of the victim while you murder him, and I am complicit in his/her murder. Welcome to the November mid-term election. SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardboard Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 The Nazis took the babies from their mother's hands and threw them into dump trucks before burrying them. I had respect for you Doughishere but, now it is all gone. You are a pathetic deceiver and liar. Cardboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 As a former Republican (local state treasurer for Nixon, I've noticed that when the Trump supporters don't have a good argument, they start blaming Obama. If that sounds weak they blame Bill and Hillary. None of them are in power now so it really doesn't matter. At some point someone has to say that" The emperor isn't wearing any clothes. jmho And I notice that the left ignores everything a Democrat does while in office. Drone bombings, record deportations, increases in prison population, tough on the drug war. There is very little that the left criticizes Trump for that isn't a direct continuation of Obama's policies (which he inherited from Bush and him from Clinton...). The difference is that Obama was well spoken and had class, so that made the murder of children and the mass deportations okay. Just as the anti-war movement went away completely the day Obama became president, your outrage over stuff like this will vanish entirely if a Democrat wins in 2020. Yes these things the federal government of the United States are doing are all truly horrific, it's nice of you to finally notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 I am curious to hear from our more conservative members: Do you agree with this policy change? What are the advantages of charging these people with a federal crime vs. sending those families to immigration court? How is the policy change an improvement? How do you see Trumps involvement in terms of responsibility for the policy change? And what are your thoughts on Trumps comments that Democrats are responsible for the effects of the policy change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharperDingaan Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Every goverment is free to make, & enforce, its own policies. But only the very dumb ones allow these kinds of images out, as the optics make it impossible to sell your message. Trump has f****d up so badly, he has had to send Sessions out to try & distract the media through the 'Nazi' comment. Problem is that the 'dog cage' images keep coming, & the Sessions distraction has been ineffective. The PR f****p remains purely Trumps .... Hard to vote for 'baby snatchers'. Last time around it was the 'baby killers' of the Vietnam War, and it didn't go well for the party in power. https://www.quora.com/Why-were-U-S-Soldiers-called-Baby-Killers-during-the-Vietnam-war So what's the GORP to do ? Maybe pay for the 'baby snatcher' posters, but ensure that Trumps face is nice & prominent. This is the idiot, not us! SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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